EP77: MISSION with Mark Greene, US Navy SEAL (ret.), Author, and Former D1 Athlete

About the Guest:

Mark Greene is a retired Navy SEAL, motivational speaker, and author. His remarkable journey of resilience began as a collegiate athlete at Miami University of Ohio, where an injury ended his football career. This setback paved the way for his obsession with becoming a Navy SEAL, a goal he achieved against the odds. Mark's military accolades include excelling in the SEAL qualification training and serving as an outstanding member of the elite special operations unit. Post-retirement, he pursued further education, earning two master's degrees from the Naval Postgraduate School and the University of Southern California. Mark has transitioned into the corporate world, working with Dominion Energy in the security space, and recently added "author" to his list of achievements with his upcoming book release.

Episode Summary:

In this episode of "Becoming UnDone," host Toby Brooks welcomes Mark Greene, whose story embodies resilience and the pursuit of excellence. After an unforeseen end to a budding football career, Mark transformed his physical pain and disappointment into a relentless drive to join one of the most elite military groups: the Navy SEALs. His tale is a testament to the power of determination, mental fortitude, and the ability to turn failures into stepping stones for success.

Mark takes us through the demanding Navy SEAL training where attrition rates are staggeringly high. His narrative details the psychological and physical barriers he overcame by compartmentalizing grueling experiences into manageable timeframes. This technique proved vital in not only completing the training but also in coping with life after military service. Key SEO phrases such as "Navy SEAL transition," "overcoming setbacks," and "mental fortitude in military training" emerge as core themes in this compelling conversation.

Transcript

Transcript

0:00:00 Mark Green: I was working really hard and progressing, and then I took a horrific shoulder injury, which suddenly ended my career because I played quarterback. And so all of a sudden, my football career was over. I could barely lift my arm, let alone throw anymore. And my friend Jeff Turner, I saw down and out, and he’s like, mark, don’t worry about it. We’re going to go be Navy Seals when we’re done with this thing. And it became an obsession. Some people, I saw the obsession with their sport.

0:00:25 Mark Green: I was obsessed about the seal thing, and I engorged myself on information and videos and books and movies and really everything. This is the catalyst for it. So I made a decision that day and I was like, we’re going to do this thing. So I mentally ended up right headspace for it because my dad told us we can’t quit something. Once we start, there’s no turning back. So if you’re going to do something and make that decision, that’s it.

0:00:48 Mark Green: I knew once I showed up and made the commitment, then that part of the equation was done. I wasn’t going to quit. But you can’t really prepare for it at all. Hello, I’m Mark Green, and I am undone.

0:01:08 Toby Brooks: Hey, friend, I’m glad you’re here. Welcome to yet another episode of Becoming Undone, the podcast for those who dare bravely, risk mightily and grow relentlessly. I’m Toby Brooks speaker, an author and a professor. Over the past two decades, I’ve worked as an athletic trainer and a strength coach. And over those years, I’ve grown more and more fascinated with what sets high achievers apart and how failures that can absolutely crush us in the moment can end up being exactly the spark we needed to launch us on our path to success.

0:01:35 Toby Brooks: Each week on becoming undone, I invite new guests to examine how high achievers can transform from falling apart to falling into place. This is your first episode. I hope you love it. I hope that you look around and find some other episodes in the archives of other guests. High achievers who didn’t let failure or setback stand in the way of their eventual victory. And if you’re a regular man, am I thankful for you.

0:02:00 Toby Brooks: Launching a podcast has been one of the most gratifying, yet challenging things I’ve ever done. Some days it felt like I was changing the world. Other days I felt like absolutely no one was listening. Some days both of those were true. So from the bottom of my heart, thank you for joining me on this journey and for being an encouragement and an inspiration to me along the way, I’d like to emphasize that this show is entirely separate from my role as a professor, but it’s my attempt to apply what I’ve learned and what I’m learning and to share with others about the mindsets of high achievers.

0:02:42 Toby Brooks: For former division I athlete Mark Green dreams of becoming the next Randall Cunningham were cut down in the middle of his college career when a serious shoulder injury made it tough to even lift his arm, let alone quarterback his way to stardom after his academic pursuits fizzled out. And an interaction at his day job at a blockbuster made him realize that his window of opportunity for new dreams was rapidly closing. He joined the Navy, eventually qualifying for basic underwater demolition school or buds. It was those lessons learned in the frigid surf of the Pacific Ocean and the sandy beaches of San Diego that would propel him forward, graduating his first time through.

0:03:22 Toby Brooks: But as difficult as becoming a seal may have been, it was just the beginning. I hope you’ll enjoy my conversation with Mark Green in episode 77 Mission.

0:03:33 C: This week we’re fortunate enough to have a retired Navy SEAL and an author who’s got a new book coming out in the next couple of weeks. Mark Green joining us from Virginia. Mark, welcome to the show.

0:03:44 Mark Green: Hey, thank you, Toby. Thanks for having me.

0:03:46 C: As we were sharing a little bit off camera before the start. This show is about how sometimes setback can set us up for ultimate success. And I know the mindset of high achievers can be different than other people and whether it’s through what you learned in the military or your career after, with two master’s degrees, one from the naval postgraduate school, another from USC, we’ll get into all that. But I always start at the beginning.

0:04:12 C: What do you want to be growing up and why?

0:04:15 Mark Green: I wanted to be in the Air force because my dad was in the air force. I remember in second grade, first or second grade, my teacher asked what I wanted to be and I said, I want to be an air force man. I was so young, I didn’t know it was an airman or anything because my dad was my hero when we lived right on Langley Air force base back then and we almost literally lived on the flight line. So I thought my dad flew airplanes. He was in the air force. I wanted to be like my dad. So that was, Mrs. Chambers was my second grade teacher that year.

0:04:47 C: Awesome. So early plans to be in the military in some way, shape or form. So your story is a fantastic one and I look forward to getting into the details. But going to start at the beginning of your journey, wherever you would start.

0:05:01 Mark Green: That I had a couple different starts, but I think I started growing up when I got to college, I went to Miami, Ohio, and I was playing football, and I played football in high school, but you don’t really know the sport until you get to a higher level. And I got to college, and it was just like I never loved football. Some people were just tenacious about it. It was something I had done. My dad said, you’re going to do something, and football is a thing.

0:05:35 Mark Green: And I took to it, and I was big kid and fast, so it just seemed like a natural progression. And we weren’t socioeconomically well off enough to pay for college. So you’re going to college. That was one. But you have to get there on your own. And the way to get there on your own was playing sports. Until I got to Miami of Ohio, and just, I was like, okay, I see why people love football. And it was a great environment, a great coaching staff.

0:06:08 Mark Green: You’re a freshman in college or you’re just learning a bunch of new stuff. And I was a sponge and had a great first year. Coach, Randy Walker. He was coaching at the University of Illinois when he passed back in, I think, the late 90s, but just an incredible guy. So he was my first real coach. And then I transferred up to Kent State, and it was the exact opposite. Coaching staff was like, it was northeast Ohio, so it was northeast Ohio, probably. It’s freezing up there, but the student athletes were about the same. But it just wasn’t my spot.

0:06:42 Mark Green: And I was progressing pretty well. And I was like, I’m going to be the next round of Cunningham, which not very many people anywhere as good as he was. But I was working really hard and progressing. And then I took a horrific shoulder injury, which suddenly ended my career because I played quarterback, and I don’t know the extent of the damage, but I went to the doctor and said, this is going to heal on its own in a couple of years, or we can go do a surgery. We’re going to cut pretty much open your whole shoulder and hope for the best.

0:07:13 Mark Green: So all of a sudden, my football career was over. I could barely lift my arm, let alone throw anymore. And my friend Jeff Turner, he saw us down and out, and he’s like, mark, don’t worry about it. We’re going to go be Navy SEALs when we’re done with this thing. This is 1992, I think Marcinko had a book, Charlie Sheen had a movie. Steven Seagal was running around. So this is really all you had. And a couple of books and I saw this video be someone special, and it was just the story of the Navy SEAL teams, and it just turned on a light, and I was like, this is okay. I get it. This is what I’m going to do. I’m third generation, second generation military, grandfather, father.

0:08:02 Mark Green: It was always in the back of my mind, going to the military was no brainer. So I was just like, all right, this is what I’m going to do.

0:08:12 Toby Brooks: You have to love the unbridled optimism of youth, don’t you? Mark is a big, athletic guy, and you heard him allude to wanting to be the next Randall Cunningham, that legendary dual threat quarterback of the Philadelphia Eagles, back in the day. And while Mark didn’t exactly love football growing up, it was a means to an end that paid the bills and allowed him to go to college. But over time, he grew to love the preparation, the camaraderie that the sport would provide.

0:08:37 Toby Brooks: Unfortunately, all that came to an end when he suffered a career ending shoulder injury. And it’s true. In 2024, we all know of the legendary toughness and precision of the US Navy Seals, one of the most elite military special operations units in the world. But in the. Wasn’t much out there, and the whole thing was kind of shrouded in mystery and mystique. So a banged up former quarterback who, by his own admission, can barely lift his arm, decides to quit the sport and do what now?

0:09:08 Toby Brooks: Not a cushy desk job, instead, one of the most grueling physically and mentally demanding positions in the world. But the seed is planted, and Mark is ready to go meet his destiny.

0:09:21 Mark Green: As a seal without a purpose, really, because football was a means to an end. College was just something obstacle, really. She had to finish. So I went back to Oxford, Ohio, because that’s where my friends and family were, but I wasn’t into it. Yeah. And then I flunked out of college. Oh, no. Was working in blockbuster video.

0:09:49 C: All your Gen X is showing right now. Yeah, a couple of things jump out as you’re talking. First of all, early 90s Navy SeaLs are not the media darlings. Maybe the recognition of that elite force is not what it is today. There weren’t, like you said, charlie Sheen may be the first, but there’s certainly a lot more recognition. People with social media platforms, Jocko Willink, all these folks that have really shined a light on just how awesome the Navy Seals are at that time.

0:10:20 C: Much more shrouded in some mystery. But I’m an athletic trainer. I work with athletes for 20 years, and I’ve had those conversations where you’re talking with an athlete who’s staring down the end of their athletic career. It doesn’t sound like football was necessarily your identity, though. How would you characterize that transition? Was it just onto the next thing for you, or did you grieve that loss?

0:10:44 Mark Green: So I didn’t realize you put thousands of hours into this thing, and you’re complaining the whole time your body hurts. Practices last forever, and then you got to go weight left in school. It’s just a grind. This is your first grind. And I thought it wasn’t my identity, but it turns out it was more of my identity than I thought. And then I could go watch practice, but I wasn’t on the team anymore. I was just a dude.

0:11:11 Mark Green: And I don’t do just being a guy with attention deficit disorder. Squirrel. And I’m off to the next thing. So it was not a very conducive environment for me. And I floundered at that because I didn’t have a goal. I’d never learned how to study, really. And I was there just because. So then flunked out of college in 1995. So I had no degree, no athletic career, no skills, really. And I was working at a video store, and one day an old friend of mine from high school came in, and he looked at me and we looked at each other. Was this one of those spaghetti western stare downs?

0:11:56 Mark Green: And he, what are you doing here? I didn’t have an answer for him. You were supposed to do this, all these great things, and here you are in blockbuster just being that guy. Yeah, that one hurt. And finally he had said that, and I didn’t have an answer for him. And then the next day, some gentleman walks in and I had, do you have seen that movie clerks?

0:12:20 C: I don’t think so.

0:12:21 Mark Green: Okay. Way back in the day, there was a scene in it where a guy describes a movie and it’s, hey, do you know this one movie about this one guy? And he does this and backflips and, oh, yes, that movie. This gentleman walks in and he says, what’s that movie about that woman who turns into an alien and just starts eating people? And with utter confidence, he does a little thing on his nose and, yeah, speckies.

0:12:46 Mark Green: And I’m like, sir, do you mean species? Yeah. At that point, I was like, okay, I can’t. I was 24, and I was like, if I don’t do this Navy SeAL thing now, then it’s never going to happen. So I joined the Navy the next day.

0:13:04 C: That’s the next thing that comes to mind is here you are, a division one athlete, and albeit in Ohio, you’re preparing for those days in the freezing cold surf, I’m guessing, but you’re injured. Your career is over due to a physical injury. And when I think of a Navy SeAL, they are physical specimens and the training, the mental approach, the study and everything that you have to do. So it is taxing and it’s the best of the best in terms of physical preparation and mental. And you’ve got a career ending injury and you’ve flunked out of college. So I’m curious about the thought process of how you’re going to take what appeared to be an end at Kent State and turn that into being a part of the most elite fighting force in America, or in the world, for that matter.

0:13:53 Mark Green: When the light turns on, whatever you’re passionate about, you can’t extinguish it. And it became an obsession. Some people, I saw the obsession with their sport. I was obsessed about the seal thing, and I engorged myself on information and videos and books and movies and really everything. And I was still going to always do it. This is the catalyst for it. And I was letting this slip through my fingers.

0:14:20 Mark Green: So I made a decision that day and I was like, we’re going to do this thing. So I mentally had already in the right headspace for it because my dad told us we can’t quit something. Once we start, there’s no turning back. So if you’re going to do something and you make that decision, that’s it. And that was probably the best thing I’d gotten from my dad because I knew once I showed up and made the commitment, then that part of the equation was done.

0:14:51 Mark Green: I wasn’t going to quit, but you can’t really prepare for it at all. So I relied on my athletic prowess and showed up at boot camp and saw the video all over again. And like, all right, week number four, you’re going to take the test. I was like, okay, great. I’d run, I’d swim, I’d done push ups and sit ups, which hope they had never done a pull up. Wow. So obviously I got pull ups. Get me that hard.

0:15:20 Mark Green: I do great on everything else. And the pull up show up, but I do one or two. I think two pull up. I think they gave me two pull ups, but they were the ugliest two pull ups I’d ever seen. They let me finish out because they wanted to see how you handle the verse, but I was like, man, this is embarrassing. I showed up, joined the navy, and to do this thing, and I can’t even pass the physical fitness test.

0:15:45 Mark Green: So I was at a crossroads. I was like, you can join the navy and not be Tom Cruise and fly a tomcat. You can be on a ship or you can be a navy Seal. And over the commodes or the toilets, they had this bar, but it was really sharp, so I had to steal some extra towels. And each night I would do pull ups. Wow. Until I could get ten. I could get ten good ones, but they were ten good ones without having to have done a swim, not having had done push ups and the sit ups. So I was like, man, I got ten, but it’s an act of God that I could get eight.

0:16:25 C: Long armed guys are at a huge disadvantage. Yeah, I look at, and he’s compact and powerful and tight. I’ve always sucked at pull because the wingspan makes it tough. At least that’s what I tell myself to feel better. So you’re in this process of vetting yourself and seeing how you measure up. I had a recent guest who was a pilot for marine want, and he mentioned something that I never really considered. He said, in the military, you wear your resume right there for all the world to see. And when you step in a room, you’re sizing everyone up. And that was foreign for me, where you do that unofficially in corporate settings, but it’s right there, and you can see how you stack up at that stage of your career. Did you feel like this was pie in the sky? This was a dream or. You definitely were going to find a way to make this happen?

0:17:16 Mark Green: No doubt it was just a setback. Like I said, once I made the decision, I needed that throughout life. I needed to get punched in the nose to understand and appreciate what I’m getting ready to go through. So each night it was diligent. Every night, hours and hours of just pull ups. And so when I finally got to the test, I did everything, maxed out everything. And first five pull ups are awesome. Picture perfect. Six was like.

0:17:47 Mark Green: And I was feeling it right. Seven a little bit worse, but made it. And then on eight, I was 95% there, and my chin was just right here. You had to get your chin over and act of God. I don’t know what it was divine intervention, but somebody yelled to the instructor or something distracted him for that second. And as he was looking away, I was like, okay, world be damned, you’re going to get this last pull up. So as he looked away, I lifted my chin up and pulled myself up, and when he turned back around, I had eight, and that was a minimum to do. So I did it. And he looked at me, and we looked at each other. He said, I know you cheated.

0:18:30 Mark Green: I don’t know what you’re talking about.

0:18:33 C: Didn’t happen.

0:18:34 Mark Green: Yeah. And they had to say, if you’re not cheating, you’re not trying. We learned that a budge. So there I was, so goal achieved. He said, don’t get cocky. You still have to run. But I was a talented runner for a big guy, so I finished the run, and I was like, okay, got it. And carried on that our trade school for three months had to take the test one more time. But once you cross that mental barrier, that you crash through something.

0:19:02 Mark Green: The second time I took the test, it was easy, and I passed the second time and had my orders. To naval special Warfare center, class 212.

0:19:13 C: Nice. Your dreams are starting to materialize. You took a bold leap, you bet on yourself, and it’s starting to pan out.

0:19:23 Toby Brooks: What happened next?

0:19:24 Mark Green: I show up to the center, and I expected it to just be this grandiose thing. The toughest training in the world, and it’s going to be huge. It’s a small place. You don’t need a lot of real estate to make it the toughest training in the world. And I learned that really quickly. But I was excited at the same time, pretty nervous, and I was like, man, I’m here, and I’m a little bit overwhelmed. Here I am.

0:19:50 Mark Green: So they sit us down in what’s called the pit. It’s right in front of the medical center, and they do it on purpose because you see all these horrific injuries come out of the pit, broken everything. Shoulders, femurs, skulls, everyone who walks out of here, and you’re just like, what in the world do they do to kids around here? But a couple of days pass, you get all checked in, you’re in your uniform, and the instructors are like, all right, green, you’re here. Go get wet. And I was just like, all right, I’m here.

0:20:18 Mark Green: Had I studied the Pacific Ocean in January, I would have realized I was just getting ready to jump into 52 degree water. So I grab a swim buddy, and I run down to the water, jump in the water, and Toby, it was pins and needles. Actually took my breath away, and I was, holy crap, it’s cold in here. The guy who was next to me, my swim buddy, stands up and says, hey, mark, you take care and hope you make it.

0:20:44 Mark Green: He quit on the spot. Wow. You’re not even giving a chance, yes. Sucks. But we’re here. This is your one shot to prove to yourself and to the Navy and to the SeaLs teams that you want to be here. And so I was struggling at first. You’re not in Navy SeAl shape. When you show up, no matter how you prep for it, it’s just different. You haven’t worked at that intensity level for that duration ever. When you have a two hour physical training session, it is 2 hours nonstop.

0:21:18 Mark Green: Instructors are yelling at you. There’s sand everywhere. They have this inflatable boat that they fill with ice. If you’re not doing stuff right, they go take a chili dip and you’re just like, okay, this is varsity. This is varsity level stuff. So I went through my normal struggle period, and one day, instructor Corey knowles was just yelling at the students. I thought the guy was going to have aneurysm, but I was not doing as well as I wanted to on swims.

0:21:46 Mark Green: So I really had a decision maker. Do I get intimidated by this guy having aneurysm looks like it’s going to pop? Or do I walk up to him and say, hey, instructor, I need help on. I need to help swimming. And no kidding. I said, instructor Knowles, and he’s like, what? I need to come in on Saturday and do some swimming. He’s like, oh, yeah, okay, 08:00 good for you. And I thought I jumped in the twilight zone, but he’s just like, yeah, we’ll be here on Saturday morning. See you then. And then he goes right back into yellow at the students. So I was like, okay, that was weird. But I showed up every Saturday, and I did the extra, everything I needed extra.

0:22:23 Mark Green: And then all of a sudden, my body was getting strong enough, right? And I’m starting to realize I can do it physically and mentally. I know I’m not going to quit, and this is not hard enough to quit. So then you start, okay, got it. And then I realized that they’re on a schedule. Every 4 hours, my stomach would start growling, and sure enough, they’d stop what they were doing and you got to feed us.

0:22:53 Mark Green: So then I’m like, oh, physically, I can do it. Mentally, I can do it. I understand we’re on a schedule, so no matter what I’m going through, it’s going to end as soon as my stomach starts growling.

0:23:06 Toby Brooks: This is powerful insight into the mind of a high achiever. Notice how Mark didn’t waste time thinking about how many months or weeks of this grueling training he had to endure. His swim buddy did that, and quit five minutes into training. But not mark. He didn’t sweat the days. Even he recognized that a signal as simple and reliable as his own growling stomach would be the internal alarm bell to let him know that much needed rest was coming.

0:23:34 Toby Brooks: And if he could just make it from one growl to the next, he’d not only finish the day, he’d finish the week, he’d finish the month, he’d finish the training, he’d graduate, and he’d become a seal, one hungry belly to the next. My very first guest, Joseph Scrajeski of the Hazel and Betty Ford center for Addiction recovery, first taught me about the power of twelve step programs. And to this day, I still proudly display a 24 camel pin on my name badge at work.

0:24:03 Toby Brooks: It’s a symbol of unity and strength and will. You don’t have to make it forever. You just have to make it for this moment. And if you can keep making it from one moment to the next, something magnificent happens, you can make it forever. Mark recognized this in himself. And once he had the assurances that he was capable both mentally and physically, he knew it was just a matter of time before he’d finish.

0:24:30 Toby Brooks: It was a lesson that served him well then and in the future.

0:24:35 Mark Green: So then what am I doing? I’m working out on the beach in California with my buddies. So then it became not easy, because it’s not easy, but it became manageable, and your confidence starts to build. And what I didn’t understand at the time that I grew to understand is the instructor staff are there to facilitate you graduate if you want to graduate, but they’re also there to facilitate you leaving if you want to leave. They just want to see you perform and give everything you’ve got.

0:25:04 Mark Green: And I had no problem with that. And I wanted to be there, and I was having fun, as much fun as you can have in that environment, but I was doing it so I could manage it. And then you understand that you’re going to at least not going to quit, and you can physically and mentally do it. It was an awesome discovery. Self discovery.

0:25:23 C: That’s fantastic. What was the attrition like in your group?

0:25:27 Mark Green: We started with 166, between 166 and 180, I can’t remember which. And we ended with 18 original guys. Wow. Now, we had people who would get hurt and they would get rolled to the next class, but only 18 of us original guys graduated. And we still keep in touch. Keep in touch with a lot of your classmates, but the original 212 guys, there’s a bond that you made it through that class as an original.

0:25:59 C: I’m blown away as you’re talking because you’re making it sound like it’s a walk on the beach. And if we look at that number, first of all, you’re a division one athlete. We know that high school athletes go on to college at a rate of about 5%. So you’re the best of the best. Mac, power five, whatever, doesn’t matter. You’re a division one athlete and now you’ve done it again as a Navy SeAL. And to just matter of factly state, I love the concept of the temporality.

0:26:27 C: It’s almost like an aa concept where I don’t worry about stopping this addiction for the rest of my life. I worry about stopping it either for the day or for the moment. And by making it digestible like that, it’s not an unscalable mountain. It’s literally this moment in front of me.

0:26:42 Mark Green: Yeah, I think a lot of people look at the Buds experience as six months, 180 days, 1216 hours a day. And I was like, they say the only easy day was yesterday because it’s over. I broke it down into chunks. I can manage just for four hour increments.

0:26:59 C: That’s powerful. So you graduate and you’re a first timer. Like you said, a lot of people get injured and they have to roll to the next class. There’s only so many opportunities to do that. Some just wash out and don’t make it through. But you get admitted and successfully make it through.

0:27:17 Toby Brooks: What next?

0:27:18 Mark Green: So buds is just a selection. Back then you didn’t learn a whole lot. You just learned the basics. It’s basic underwater demolition school. So you learn the basics of your job. But as a Buds graduate, they’re not going to say, all right, mark missions up because you don’t know anything. So you go to seal qualification training to where they’re actually teaching you your job because you’re physically and mentally capable of doing the job at that level.

0:27:48 Mark Green: So now they have to train you because you’re going out the door in two years on your deployments. So I really just, again, I was a sponge. How do you do this? What does this mean? I was bad at this, at Buds and I wasn’t necessary, but this is a deficiency I need so to a gap I need to fill. So I was just a sponge. And so I did really well at SQT and then showed up the team. And that’s even more intense because you can integrate yourself into the team and know the basics of the tactics. But then there’s guys with years and years of experience and you realize, okay, I still don’t know anything yet.

0:28:33 Mark Green: But then you’re a new guy and it’s the bottom of the barrel. You’re getting everything and all the crap jobs. But I had a great platoon that was really structured really well, and they’re like, all right, you’re going to learn this job and you’re going to learn it really well. And our chief was like, we’re not going to go too far away from the basics. So we just nailed the basics. And that was my foundation, and it was a fantastic foundation which carried throughout the next 18 years, 17 years of my career.

0:29:08 C: What would you say were the range of your military career? The high point, the low point. And what did they teach you about yourself?

0:29:16 Mark Green: High point was being accepted into the seal community as a good operator. There are levels to even division one schools at Notre Dame’s got a guy that you’re like, I don’t know, you got here, bro. You’re here. And that’s with any organization. You have guys who are astronomical and you have guys who are middle of the road and you have guys who are. They have the, like Richard Devittee said, they have the attributes to do it and they can learn the job, but it’s going to be more of a.

0:29:46 Mark Green: It was the height of. It was understanding and learning how to be consistent. NFL’s full of Tom Brady’s for a game or a quarter or a series, but the longevity of his career was he was so consistently exceptional that that’s what was set him apart. How many guys had, this guy had a 400 yard game and then the next week, that’s the last game he’s ever played because he couldn’t maintain it. The discipline that I gained from doing that was a high, and it really just carried throughout my life. It’s one of the things I’ll have for the rest of my life.

0:30:25 Mark Green: The low was losing teammates and loss. That was the low point. A really great friend at the time, Mike, had a parachuting accident, and we had done everything together. We were in class together. We went to sniper school together. Our wives and kids were close. And then one day he passed away in a parachuting accident. And I was like, this isn’t supposed to happen. He’s 25 years old and real good, man.

0:30:56 Mark Green: This isn’t supposed to happen. So that was the first death I experienced, and unfortunately there were multiple deaths after that. So that was what the low looked like. Yeah.

0:31:09 C: Certainly tough to recover from something like that. You mentioned that you failed out of college prior to your military experience. But today you’ve got a bachelor’s degree, two master’s degrees. So talk to me through your higher education journey.

0:31:26 Mark Green: It always just bugged me that because I quit college, you funk out. I quit doing what I was supposed to do to succeed, and that really just bugged the crap out of me. And I had always wanted to finish, but I was coasting along and career was going fine. And then there was a leadership opportunity. They switched the age waiver. You had to be 31 years old to become an officer. You had to be commissioned at 31.

0:31:54 Mark Green: Then they upped it to 37. And I was like, if I go ahead and finish my degree, then I can apply to be an officer. So did the timeline and said, all right, here’s my opportunity to finish college. And I did the same thing I always do. I just bug the instructor or the teacher. And I didn’t learn how to study well. So let’s get me good study habits, because I want to be an officer. The prerequisite you have to have a degree.

0:32:22 Mark Green: So I had a mission again, and I just was tenacious about getting it. I got it. And then I was at a party, and I told my commanding officers, like, hey, sir, I want to be an officer. I need letters of recommendation. He said, son, you got to go as high as you can go. And he thought he was going to be the highest guy. And we were at a 4 July party, and I met the only fighter ace in the Pacific and the european theater named Dean Laird.

0:32:53 Mark Green: And he’s at this party, older gentleman, and I walk up to him and say, hey, sir, I need a letter of recommendation to put me over the top at. I’m not really good at writing this stuff, but I’ve got a really good friend who’d love to. I’m like, okay. So he said, give me a call in a couple of weeks. I had a death in the family, and we’ll get it all set up. And I really thought that he’d forget all about me, but I called him two weeks later. Oh, yes, son, I got you a meeting with Jim, and here’s his address. Show up in your whites, and I’ll be there soon after you get there.

0:33:29 Mark Green: I was like, okay. And he’s getting ready to hang up the phone. I was like, sir, I don’t know who Jim is. And he’s like, oh, it’s Jim Stockdale. I’m like, wait a second. Vice presidential candidate medal guy Stockdale? Yeah. Jimmy knows you’re coming. I was like, I can’t call him Jimmy. So I show up in my dress uniform and had this wonderful interview with him. He’s just an amazing. He was an amazing man, but he had an amazing story. But he was so humble and kind. And first thing I said to him before we would start the interview, I was like, sir, just so you know, I saw cat of college. He’s like, I don’t want to hear that shit.

0:34:08 Mark Green: I don’t care. I’m looking at your record. Your peers agree that you’re ready to take this next step. We’re taking this next step. So go ahead and sit down, and we’re going to do this interview. And that was the only time he was stern with me. He’s like, we’re not doing that. I was like, fine, man. You’re not the boss of me, but fine. So then we sit down, and I just had this amazing 4 hours with legendary american hero. Really?

0:34:33 Mark Green: And I say my goodbyes, and I was like, man, that broke really well. It’s like, all right, son, I’m going to write you up a letter, and we’re going to get you on your way to ocs. And I go home excited. 07:00 next morning, get a phone call. Son, where the hell are you? I was like, sir, I’m on my way. He was starting to suffer from dementia. He’d forgotten that we’d had the interview the day prior. Silver lining is, I get to go hang out the animal again. So I got dressed up again and did the exact same interview the next day, and a couple of weeks later, maybe it was a month later, I called him and say, hey, sir, just checking in. What the hell is going on? Are you an officer yet? I was like, they haven’t gotten to my package yet. And he just hangs up the phone.

0:35:17 Mark Green: So he goes to the special warfare command as an admiral, retired, and then as a medal of Honor winner. There are protocols that the Navy say you have to pipe him on, and you have to have 32 and a half people carrying a stuff. All of a sudden, this gentleman walks in. He’s like, who do I got to screw around here to get petty Officer Green into ocs? I guess it was just pandemonium. Movies, papers are flying everywhere, bodies are going everywhere.

0:35:45 Mark Green: And finally, petty Officer Green, like, no, dude, admiral’s here. He talked to whoever he talked to, and he wrote me a handwritten letter that I still have today getting me no cs. That’s awesome.

0:35:58 C: So that starts you back on the track for higher ed, and then you end up with two master’s degrees, reluctantly.

0:36:07 Mark Green: So I did my officer, my assistant tour, and then I did what’s called a disassociated tour. You have to go to a different command. So I went to the boats, which were fantastic. They were our support guys. Didn’t get enough respect in the community back then, but I had this amazing experience. So when the billet came up, I was like, hey, I want to go to the boats. So I went to the boats, learned a new skill, but I was way ahead of my progression. It’s like in the business world, you show up as a new person and then you build up your leadership stuff.

0:36:41 Mark Green: So I was years ahead of my leadership curve because I didn’t have to go through buds as an ensign. And I got my assistant officer in charge check off right away. And then I got my second checkoff, and I was too young to do my officer in charge, so you got to pick something. So I was like, you know what? There’s this really cool course at the naval postgraduate school where you get to go home and recharge and get to reconnect with your family and stuff. I was like, great. So I called the lady at the time who gave us our jobs and said, hey, I want to go to this course where I read a bunch of books and my brain gets big, but I get to recover. She’s like, that’d be great, but you have three kids, and I’m not going to be responsible for them not having food on the table once you retire. So I’m going to send you to get your MBA.

0:37:32 Mark Green: I’m like, no, you’re not. In the back of my mind that me fucking out of college. And I wasn’t a math guy. And I was like, I don’t know economics. I don’t know any of that stuff. She’s like, no, you’ll be all right. So I show up at a naval postgraduate school learning business at the graduate level, and I took it on the chin a bunch for about eight months. It’s 18 month course, so about half of it. The garbage in, garbage out portion, I was always terrible at.

0:38:02 Mark Green: But the analytics stuff, I actually did really well. So once the analytics part showed up and I started to figure it out, I was like, okay. Then I started thriving at grad school, and then I got an outstanding thesis award that I’m like, I hope nobody finds out that I plugged out of college. And then I went back and did my officer in charge tour, which is, I had the most amazing group of guys. I’ve worked with so many great people in that community, but the group of men I got to lead were all just exceptional.

0:38:39 C: Talk me through your retirement from the Navy and what that process was like. We talked a little bit about how your identity might have been in football for a while. Whether you realized it or not, you feel like your identity was in the Navy, and just being a Navy SeaL, was that part of who you were, and did you struggle with leaving that behind?

0:38:56 Mark Green: So I didn’t realize to what degree it was because it’s a really challenging lifestyle. And you’re like, man, I can’t wait for my 20 years because it’s time to go. But then when the time to go shows up, you’re like, I don’t know what’s next. I don’t even know what I’m good at. And the hardest thing was when you leave the community, and it’s no fault of the community. The military is designed to thrive without you being there.

0:39:30 Mark Green: So it was for 20 years, 19 years, I was Mark Green, Navy Seal. And then on Saturday after I retired, I was just mark, nothing special anymore. But you’re unemployed for the first time in 20 years, really. And going back, if you wanted to go back and see your old platoon or just the old guys, I realized that I and so many other veterans are tolerated but not welcome anymore. And the guys don’t mean anything bad by it. It’s just you go back and they’re still in that grind when the rotors are spinning and guys got to do stuff and, hey, we’ll catch up when we can, and life happens.

0:40:14 Mark Green: So you’re still part of that community, but it’s like long distance. Your long distance relative who’s not really welcome anymore. So that was really hard. And all of a sudden it’s quiet. Yeah, I didn’t expect the quiet. You’re always doing something, but you wake up and kids go to school and quiet. Yeah, you don’t know what to do.

0:40:43 C: So many guests have alluded to how these changes in season, whether it’s an artist who’s acted in their last film or an athlete who’s retired or a military veteran who has left their long standing career, they go from having purpose on a Friday to being directionless on a Monday.

0:41:02 Mark Green: Exactly.

0:41:03 C: That can be a very lonely. And there’s just a grief that comes in sometimes where you just feel around in the dark for what’s next. So how did becoming an author and your current job today start to materialize out of that season?

0:41:19 Mark Green: I really struggled with my retirement because there were no real job opportunities where I was in Virginia beach and I met this gentleman in New York City and he offered to bring me out to LA because when I talked to him, he asked, what’s next for you? I’m like, how the hell should I know? I don’t know what I’m doing. And he said, no, we’re not going to allow that. So I took him up on his offer out to LA for about four or five days, met him, met his staff, and they really just wanted to go through my resume and see what skill set I had. And I think he was wanting it to lead to a job.

0:42:02 Mark Green: And finally we have a heart to heart on Tuesday and he’s like, mark, I’d be doing you a disservice if I give you a job. Here, sit you behind the desk. I said, but I’m going to USC. Do you want to go? I’m like, yeah, I’ll go to USC. So we show up and we pull into his parking spot, take two steps, and it was graduation week and it was just mayhem and pandemonium and it was awesome. And that school has something about that school is just electric.

0:42:36 Mark Green: So we take two steps. I’m like, this would be a great place to work. He didn’t say anything. I didn’t say anything. We met the dean of the business school. He did a tour of the campus and next day I left. And two weeks later he said, hey, everything we talked about two weeks ago, forget it. And I guess before interviews at USC. Wow. And I’m thinking, I was like, bill, what am I interviewing for? He said, don’t worry about it. Just don’t suck. I got the phone toe.

0:43:02 Mark Green: That was my, hey, somebody sees your value out here. And so I went out to USC and got my USC colored tie and got my first suit and I was trying to not get hired, so I was relaxing, just telling team guy stories. And the gentleman who I was interviewing just studying me. And once the interview is over, he’s like, hey, you got to get your next interview, but come on back after you’re done. I was like, okay, al, I’ll see you later. So I just go off to my four interviews because I’m not going to move out here.

0:43:35 Mark Green: I’m just practicing. So we come back and I was like, hey, al, how’s it going? He’s like, hey, go ahead and have a seat. And he said, what’s it going to take to get you out at USC? And it took a few seconds for the gears to finally go in this place. Holy crap, this is a job offer. And I didn’t want to offend them, so I said a number that I thought was just astronomical. I dropped. I was like, 150,000.

0:44:01 Mark Green: Okay? I’m like, oh, didn’t research that. And then I start making excuses. My wife is in the medical field and didn’t research. And they call USC medical Center, hey, I got a guy I want to hire. Do you have a position for his wife? We’ll find something else, no problem. Hangs up the phone, and I’m like, all right, that’s strike two. I got this one. Hey, I’ve got three kids. We don’t know where we’re going to live out here.

0:44:32 Mark Green: Can’t take it. So he gets on the phone again and said, hey, I got a guy I want to hire. He’s got three kids. You still have those three scholarships floating around school that he can use for a year until we figure it out. Yeah, we’re good. And he hangs up the phone. Are we good? I’m like, apparently we are. So I fly back home elated because I can put food on the table, and if I stay at USC for two years, the kids go to USC for free.

0:44:59 Mark Green: Three kids at 300 plus thousand. That’s a million dollars. So in my mind I was like, I’m a millionaire, right? So I go home and tell my wife, I’m like, you are not going to believe what happened. And I’m excited, right? And I’m good. What? And she wouldn’t budge. And I understood because it was one more thing, right? It was a move from Virginia to Los Angeles. Love Los Angeles. Los Angeles is weird. It takes years to get used to the place.

0:45:36 Mark Green: So I understood and I called the gentleman who brought me out initially. I said, hey, life’s not going for it. How about this? How about I give you a low interest loan? Your wife can come out and pick any house in LA, Malibu, West Hollywood, wherever she wants to live. Come pick her house and I’ll give you a low interest loan. Stay out here for five years, the house is yours. I’m like, hold on a second. You’re not going to believe this. And I told her what it was and she said, no, I’m good. I want to stay here. I’m like, okay, I have to keep food on the table, and this is a job opportunity, that something great is going to happen out here. I don’t know what it is.

0:46:20 Mark Green: All these stars are aligning, and I’ll have a job at a university. Something good will come out of, but it I have to provide for my family. So I took the job and went out solo. Unfortunately, that was the start of the divorce. And I understand I made a family decision. It’s going to suck, but we’re going to be fine. And I believe that she made more of an individual decision. So I moved out to LA. You don’t know the city. It’s a huge place at a new job that I don’t know what the hell I’m doing, and I’m trying to keep my family and marriage together. So it was at the end of the day, I’d go to this wonderful campus, and then I’d get on the train and get into my studio apartment and was just silent again.

0:47:14 Mark Green: And then the invisible injuries start to manifest because you’re on high alert all the time and you can’t stop your body from buzzing. Then you’re not sleeping, and then you have a really hard time learning new stuff. And then I’m at a university, I’m like, something’s going on with my head. Did you play a sport? Yeah, play a sport. Football. Okay, that explains a little bit of it. And I learned at where I met Rich at the Nico center that a lot of us have blasts, propagated brain trauma, brain injuries, and they manifest in different ways than impact injuries. So I had football impact injuries and blast brain injuries.

0:47:53 Mark Green: So I had it on both sides and I just wasn’t on top of my game anymore. And I wasn’t any good at any one thing. So what do seals do when you’re overwhelmed? Pile on more stuff. The more stuff was I wouldn’t be part of this USC because I fell in love with the campus. I fell in love with just everything about that place. Even to this day, I just love the place and I love the students. And I was like, I want to be a part of this thing forever.

0:48:26 Mark Green: And I applied to grad school and got in. So then I wasn’t any good at grad school at first because I just had too much stuff going on. And then I just wasn’t any good at anything. And I had suicidal ideation. What if things are better if I’m just not around anymore? Yeah. And it was only literally for five minutes. But in the front of my mind I always knew that I’m going to get through this, whatever I’m going through.

0:49:00 Mark Green: But you have four kids that are depending on you to be around. And you may not feel valuable now, but your kids value you still tons of love. Nurse. And you have to repair the rift that’s happening with the divorce, that’s when I hit the bottom.

0:49:23 C: I teach a behavioral medicine class for our athletic training master students, and we talk at length about mental health and athletes particularly. But I came across a quote that said, athletics is probably second only to the military in its disregard for mental health and how toughness and showing vulnerability and admitting that you’re struggling with suicidal ideation or anxiety or depression or any of these things, you just don’t do it because it’s vulnerability. And vulnerability can be exploited, and it might cost you, whether that’s a starting position on a roster or a promotion.

0:50:01 C: I think you grew up in both of those worlds. And so the mental health aspect of this was certainly, and I would even say in our generation, I don’t know anyone in my high school that went to therapy. I just did. And today it seems like, and this is no disrespect, it’s just an observation that the generations have changed and the awareness surrounding mental health is different for our generation than it is for our kids. And that’s not a bad thing. But the reality is you’re suffering in silence, feeling like you probably don’t have anyone to talk to.

0:50:32 C: What helped you get out of that season?

0:50:35 Mark Green: So when I got to USC, I knew my Seal locker room and my Seal tribe was gone. But when I got on campus, it was just. I had a brand new tribe instantly. I went to a game on Saturday. We had to work the games, and I sat down, and this nice couple who I’m still friends with today, they’re like, have a scene. What did you tell me about yourself? And I was like, oh, I’m not a trojan. I didn’t go to school.

0:51:03 Mark Green: Who cares? You’re here now. We were happy you’re here. I was just like, this can’t be right. And the next person I talked to said the same thing. And all of a sudden, I just had this tribe again. And I had a locker room that was, albeit a little stranger than my other one, marching bands and football games and red and gold everywhere. So I had my people again, different people, but as valuable. So I just was surrounded by that for years at a time. And then being at a university, I was just like, I need help.

0:51:37 Mark Green: Same thing like I needed with Corey when he was having aneurysm. I need help. I don’t know what’s going on. And he’s like, oh, you’re in the right place. We have a cognitive study going on, starts Monday. And we gave you a slot, and it was just, hey, I need help. I got a guy. Go try this. And it’s a different modality, and it may not work, but we’re at research university, so try it. And I just kept trying. Then finally went to EMDR, and it stuck.

0:52:07 Mark Green: That was the, hey, we’re identifying what you’re going through, and we have this therapy, and it works really well. And try it.

0:52:20 Toby Brooks: The EMDR you just heard Mark refer to is eye movement desensitization and reprocessing therapy, a mental health treatment technique that involves specific eye movements while recounting and processing through traumatic injuries. It’s relatively new, with published clinical trials, first coming out in the late eighty s and early ninety s. Just as Mark was processing through the pain of leaving his military career, moving across the country, navigating divorce, not to mention the physical and neurologic traumas of years of football, and close proximity to blasts as a seal that can leave a lasting impact on the brain.

0:52:54 Toby Brooks: He was fortunate enough to be working at the University of Southern California, a major research institution where studies into the new therapy were ongoing. Thankfully for Mark, it worked. He found himself slowly recovering, leaving his depression and even moments of thoughts of suicide behind, in no small part to the community, who quickly embraced him at USC. But he wasn’t done yet, and I.

0:53:18 Mark Green: Did, and the veil started lifting, and then I was just slowly coming. I’m incrementally coming back. I think one of the good things about when I left the military and then went to university, I was still moving forward. Sometimes it was incremental, and sometimes there were leaps and bounds, but I was never stagnant. And I think if you’re struggling and you’re having a hard time with your transition, any transition sport, academia, business, if you’re stagnant, then that’s when you start to lose it, and that’s when you could start losing ground.

0:53:59 Mark Green: But I never lost ground. I continued to move forward. That’s great.

0:54:03 C: My lone USC story. I was a graduate assistant athletic trainer at Arizona, and we traveled to USC for a football game. And you fly in charter on the Friday before, myself and my colleague, we had to go set up the locker room with the taping stations and all that stuff. We got lost, and we got about ten blocks away, and we’re in a whole nother world.

0:54:25 Mark Green: Ten blocks away from Gaia.

0:54:28 C: Yes. We’re like, okay, I think we made a wrong turn. We need to find the state. He was an undergrad student, and I was a hayseed from southern Illinois, so we were not in our element. Talk to me about the book. What was the impetus behind it? And talk to us about unsealed.

0:54:47 Mark Green: I was a reluctant author. Have you heard of Michael Gervais? Okay. So Michael was speaking to the business school, and the guy was getting ready to do the thing. You’re going to try to set the world record for the highest skydive. And he was talking with that gentleman, but he came and talked to the class, and he does his thing. And the q a, one of the students said, hey, how do special operations guys mentally prepare for stuff? And he’s funny you should ask. We have one right here. He’s going to tell you all about it. And I look around, I’m like, wow, there’s another team guy in there, and it’s awesome.

0:55:23 Mark Green: Talk about you. Yeah. So he said, mark, after the break, come up and tell the students all about your story. So I only had 15 minutes, and I didn’t know what I was going to talk about. But the students resonated with it. And then the next time they had a celebrity speaker, I don’t know if it was Kobe Bryant or somebody else really big, and they couldn’t make it. So my friend Glenn said, hey, mark, I know you’re getting ready to go home. Can you come and talk to the students?

0:55:53 Mark Green: It’s only for an hour. And I’m like, okay, yeah, of course. So I talked with the students, and at that time, I really resonated with the students. And we had a couple speakers afterward, and at the end of the year, they said, who is your favorite? Like, we’d love to have Mark back. I’m like, well, for Kobe. So I got an invite for every semester to talk with the class and the gentleman from pivotal moments media who sponsored the book, and they’re really very passionate about mental health through education.

0:56:29 Mark Green: And he was in the military and had a company with radios and stuff, but he’s really passionate about media, and we connected. And they said, mark, are you going to ever write a book? I’m like, no, man. There’s so many people with more interesting stories. And so he said, okay, I’ll give you a mulligan on that one. But then another year passed. You’re going to write your book? Like, no, same thing, man. It’s not very interesting. So he came to see me speak one time, and he saw the students. He’s, those kids are just completely connected with this guy’s story.

0:57:08 Mark Green: So finally, he calls me and said, I’ve had enough of you. Here’s four ghost writers. Interview them. Pick one. Once you pick your ghostwriter, the funding is available. Start writing your book. And I almost said no, but I was like, okay. This guy keeps. He keeps bugging me about this thing. He sees some importance in it. And I started looking at the numbers and looking at myself, and I was like, I hate that I have lost more friends and warriors to taking their own life than combat.

0:57:51 Toby Brooks: This is a startling, sobering, tragic, and completely true statistic. Record keeping for death by suicide and military personnel didn’t routinely happen before 911. But in 2021, research found that more than 30,000 active duty and veterans who served in the military since 911 died by suicide. Compare that to 7000 service members killed in combat during that same span. This means our true american heroes, who routinely put their lives on the line in the defense of our freedom, have proven to be four and a half times more likely to take their own life than to perish at the hands of the enemy.

0:58:31 Toby Brooks: Mark had experienced it firsthand, but thankfully found himself surrounded by the support he needed to get help. That isn’t true for everyone. Encouraged to share his story by students and friends alike, he reluctantly agreed to a book about his life in the hopes that it might help. And it’s safe to say that that act of courage is continuing to help others today.

0:58:54 Mark Green: And the impetus of the book was, tell your story of your transition and be honest and open and vulnerable and say, hey, man, there’s a soul and a heart in here that’s not made of stone. And let them know that you’re struggling and it’s okay. You’re not by yourself. So that was the initial chapter of it. But then I started thinking about transitions. I transitioned a bunch of times from college athlete to not being a college athlete, being single to being married, being in college, flunking out of college.

0:59:27 Mark Green: All those things are transition points. And all of a sudden, I have these 20 stories of just transitions. And the one that was the hardest for me was I was in Home Depot and I had to buy a house. I had to buy a new house, and I was trying to put blinds in the house, and I had my notebook, and I wrote everything down, and I couldn’t solve the math problem of how many blinds I had with the different sizes for the different windows.

1:00:01 Mark Green: I had had roots right now in Home Depot, if I had not gotten help from my ten year old daughter, and she’s just like, dad, are you okay? I’m like, I can’t solve this problem. Very basic problem. So she took my book and went through the list and put it in the cars and basically just carted me off and escorted me through the process. And I was like, I started to tell that story, and I think that so many veterans are in that space of.

1:00:34 Mark Green: I used to be at the height of my game, whatever that was. I can’t solve a basic problem, and instead of seeking help, it’s. I’m hitting the rock bottom. What if life would be better if I wasn’t around? Yeah. So I told a bunch of stories to help, hopefully resonate with somebody, to say, hey, okay, this guy was a seal and done a lot of stuff and he struggled. Okay, maybe this is a real thing and he got help.

1:01:09 Mark Green: And then that’s on a micro level, on a macro, I’d like to hit all those people who are transitioning and maybe there’s a story that resonates with them. And that’s really what I hope to gain through telling the story and just get help. And you’re valuable and people care about you. And even though your locker room is gone, build a new locker room. Right. Because you have the skills and you have so much value and skill that people are willing to pay for, and you just have to discover what that is. And if the person going through the transition doesn’t see it, I hope their spouse or their child gets a hold of this book.

1:01:52 Mark Green: That’s like, my dad or my husband or my wife is going through this one thing. Hey, stupid, read this chapter. This is exactly what you’re going through. And maybe that’s the one thing that resonates with this person to start the process of getting better. So that’s why I wrote the book.

1:02:08 C: That’s awesome. I will certainly be ordering a copy. What do your days look like today?

1:02:14 Mark Green: I work at Dominion Energy, and it’s a great place. It’s an energy company, which I didn’t know energy companies had such a diverse workforce and a diverse mission and weird stuff that they do that keeps the country going. And I had moved back here and looking for a job, and a guy said, hey, have you thought about working for Dominion energy? I’m like, no, I don’t have the skills to change wires on poles and stuff. It’s like, no, dude, we do so much more than that. And he said, there’s this program that’s starting up and you’d look like you’d be a good candidate for it.

1:02:50 Mark Green: What is it? But I can’t really tell you until you accept the job. And I took the job, and it’s an incredible job. It’s in the security space, and I’m learning new stuff every day. I’m going on three years at the company, and I’m still learning, but it’s a group of four of us on this team, and it’s just a great team, and we have a great time together, and we really work well together, and I work really well in small teams.

1:03:18 Mark Green: But then the people surrounding us on our same floor are so talented, and it’s a great place to work. I’m thriving there. So, yeah. If you’re interested in something obscure and the security or any space, look at an energy company, because they’re rated really high on job satisfaction and they really take care of their people. Sure. That’s fantastic.

1:03:42 C: Next to last one, an Odball. If we were to watch a montage of your life, what song would you pick to play in the background and why?

1:03:51 Mark Green: That’s a great question. I want to say. Oh, man, it’s a great question. I think Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen. Nice. Because it’s got its ups, it’s got its downs, and it’s got this great crescendo. Right. But then the weird thing is it doesn’t have a chorus. Right. It’s never repeating. It’s just an anthem, really, to the ups and downs of life and being misunderstood. And it’s just one of those songs that punches you right in the face.

1:04:27 Mark Green: Sure, if I had to. And then the Wayne’s world, they perform, but, yeah, if I had to do that or anything by run DMC back in 1984. There you go. Yeah. So those would be my two. That’s awesome.

1:04:42 C: I actually have a Spotify mix of all my guests song choices, so it’s like a mixtape of all my guests.

1:04:49 Mark Green: So I’ll add you in. What for?

1:04:53 C: Mark Green remains undone.

1:04:57 Mark Green: I have not completely repaired the relationship with my kids. Two of them, I’ve nailed it. My youngest two, my oldest two were transitioning in their own. My son was going to high school for his first year. My daughter graduated and went to college, and they were transitioning. I moved out to LA. And just the dynamics of the divorce, it just caused a huge rift and I didn’t have the skill set to talk through it.

1:05:35 Mark Green: I think I’m about 80% there with my older two, but those are the two things I haven’t finished. I just haven’t figured out how to just say, hey, dad made a mistake, but it was in your best interest. You couldn’t see it at the time, but I did this whole thing just so your transition would be easier. Let me do the heavy lift. You guys stay here and continue with your life and have your normal hiccups, but let dad take the heavy lift again.

1:06:05 Mark Green: And I just didn’t figure it out and I needed to be here. But if I had stayed without a job, it would have been even worse. So as they’re getting older and maturing and seeing life not as a 14 year old or an 18 year old, as a 25 year old who’s now married and lives in another country, to my son who’s becoming an engineer and thinking through life again, my perspective has changed. I’ve gained a little bit of wisdom and I can understand the decision making process much more than I could have years ago.

1:06:43 Mark Green: Right? But I work at it every day. Still, I appreciate you sharing that.

1:06:50 C: How can listeners connect with you? Whether it’s the book or your speaking business or just following you, where can I send them?

1:06:58 Mark Green: I’m just figuring out the social media thing. So I went on the cleared hot podcast. It’s done really well and I’m answering each direct message personally because it’s important that people take the time to listen to my story and then react to it or respond to it. I owe them that to respond to them. So Instagram, Demarc Green at Instagram and the Mark Green at Facebook and on X. My social media person even made me get a TikTok account.

1:07:29 Mark Green: And so you can find me on TikTok. But there’s the website, the Mark Green, and that’s our website we’re building. And there are also opportunities for speaking events. So just reach out and go buy the book. It’s available mostly on Amazon, but anywhere books are sold, Kindle version. And you can purchase from website and just give it a look because it’s going to be a different book than what you think.

1:07:55 Mark Green: It’s got some seal stuff in it, but it’s mostly, hey, this is what transition looked like at this stage and hopefully it’ll resonate with you. Awesome.

1:08:05 C: I look forward to reading it. I will add all of those links in the show description and in the notes. Mark can’t thank you enough. Fantastic. I could have spent another hour, but I want to be conscious of your time. So thank you so much for dropping in and sharing a bit of yourself tonight.

1:08:20 Mark Green: Absolutely. And hopefully we can have a chapter too. Hello, I’m Mark Green and I am undone.

1:08:27 Toby Brooks: I’m thankful to Mark for dropping in, sharing his story and his heart, and for giving us a critical glimpse inside the mind of a high achiever. For more info on today’s episode, be sure to check it out on the web. Simply go to undonepodcast.com ep 77 to see the notes, links and images related to today’s guest, Mark Green. I know there are great stories out there to be told, and I’m always on the lookout. So if you or someone you know has a story that we can all be inspired by, tell me about it. Surf on over to undonepodcast.com, click the contact tab in the top menu and drop me a note.

1:09:13 Toby Brooks: This episode marks the first of a two part series on veterans in mental health. And coming up, I’ve got U. S. Marine Corps veteran, Stanford MBA, and now mental health advocate and entrepreneur Vanit Rajan, followed up by 1996 Olympic high jump champion Charles Austin. And then I’ve got fitness influencer Jody Dolo. So stay tuned. This and more coming up on becoming undone. Becoming Undone is a nitrohype creative production written and produced by me, Toby Brooks. If you or someone you know has a story of resilience and victory to share for becoming undone, contact me@undonepodcast.com

1:09:47 Toby Brooks: follow the show on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn at becoming undone pod and follow me at Tobyjbrooks on X Instagram and TikTok. Check out my link tree at Linktr ee backslash Tobyjbrooks. Listen, subscribe and leave me a review at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio or wherever.

1:10:06 Mark Green: You get your podcasts.

1:10:08 Toby Brooks: Till next time, everybody. Keep getting better.