EP66: THE BRAND with Vocalist Brynnan Brooks

About The Guest:

Brynnan Brooks is a performer and artist who is passionate about using her talents to connect with people and show her authentic self. She believes in the power of deep conversations and wants to be known for who she truly is, rather than presenting a sanitized image to the world. Brynnan is currently studying vocal performance and is focused on personal growth and using her art as a way to make meaningful connections with others.

Summary:

Brynnan Brooks discusses the importance of being known for who you truly are and not just presenting a sanitized image to the world. She believes that setting yourself up for happiness and peace is more important than striving for worldly success. Brynnan also talks about the challenges introverts face in building their personal brand and how they can still be liked by being authentic and connecting with people on a one-on-one level. She emphasizes the importance of vulnerability and being true to yourself, even if it means facing criticism or misunderstanding. Brynnan and Toby also discuss the double standards that exist for men and women when it comes to vulnerability and how society's expectations can limit personal growth. They explore the keys to building a personal brand, including having a clear mission and core values, being purposeful in design choices, and utilizing platforms like websites and podcasts to showcase your authentic self.

Key Takeaways:

1. Being known for who you truly are and making meaningful connections with others is more important than striving for worldly success.
2. Introverts can still be liked by connecting with people on a one-on-one level and being authentic.
3. Vulnerability is important in building a personal brand and showing your true self, even if it means facing criticism or misunderstanding.
4. Society often has double standards when it comes to vulnerability, with men being discouraged from showing emotions and women facing limitations in certain fields.
5. Building a personal brand requires having a clear mission and core values, being purposeful in design choices, and utilizing platforms like websites and podcasts to showcase your authentic self.

Quotes:

• "I want to be known in that people truly know me, they really know me and not some sort of sanitized image that I'm presenting to the world." - Brynnan Brooks
• "If your goal is just, I'm going to be the best singer, there's a lot of people, that's their goal. But setting yourself up for a lot of heartache." - Brynnan Brooks
• "Introverts using the one-on-one method, getting to know people individually or really using the energy they have in a good way." - Brynnan Brooks
• "There's always someone going to be upset about what you say, especially if you're trying to keep it real like that." - Brynnan Brooks
• "I think there's always some kind of standard and there's always something that society is saying, you can do this or you can't do this." - Brynnan Brooks

Transcript

0:00

I want to be known in that like people truly know me, like they really know me, and not some sort of sanitized image that I'm presenting to the world. I want to be conscious of my image, but I don't want to change it to like only let people see a certain part. I think that's important to being successful in a performance space. If your goal is just, I'm going to be the best singer, if there's a lot of people, that's their goal. So that's setting yourself up for a lot of heartache. So if you're like, hey, I really love singing, or any career, if you're like, I really love doing this, and I want to use this as a way to meet people and get to know people and really know them and show people this side of myself and use it as like a connection tool rather than a step stool or like a ladder to what the world needs is success. I feel like that sets you up for a lot more happiness and peace other than just like, more of a success. It is Word to the Third, my reflections on purpose, life and growth. I'm Toby Brooks. I'm a speaker, author, professor and forever student. Each week on Becoming Undone, I bring you guests who have dared bravely, risked mightily and grown relentlessly. High achievers who've transformed from falling apart to falling into place. But every third episode or so, it's my turn to reflect, refine and reprocess on Word to the Third. It's great to be back in the studio for yet another episode of Becoming Undone. Today's show is a reboot of my first foray into podcasting. It was a fairly short-lived show called Better Every Week that I co-hosted with my daughter Brennan. You can find the first two episodes of that show here on Becoming Undone, episodes 36 and 39. But when Brennan was a freshman at the University of Oklahoma, we started a show that was, like lots of my ideas, pretty exciting on paper at first, but tough to execute. She got busy. I got busy. I struggled a ton with the production side of things. And despite both of our best intentions, it eventually fizzled out. I knew I wanted a podcast of my own, so about a year ago, Becoming Undone was born, and I was off and running. But those four episodes of Better Every Week, they were still good to me and I wanted them to live somewhere. So I decided that I would slowly roll them back out to my new audience with a fresh edit and hopefully some new insights. As I was listening to our conversation again for the first time in two years, I was reminded of what a difficult time that season was for me. I was recovering from COVID. My daughter was still five plus hours away in another state and still struggling to find her place. The sound quality wasn't the greatest. I mumbled way too much and it wasn't perfect but we did it anyway. I always say the best way to get better at something is to withstand a sucking at it for a while and we did. The conversation was another good one too and it's one I try to share regularly with the world. In this installment I lead the way as Bryn and I discuss things like authenticity and vulnerability, creating an identity package, and how taking control of your brand is an important step in the life of any professional. So dig in and enjoy episode 66, The Brand, with Brendan Brooks. All right, last time you led, and so our very first episode, we talked about toxic motivation. We followed that up with your conversation. Yeah, and we talked about the arts versus sports. Right. And so one of the things that kind of came about when you start applying for colleges and later for jobs, and your friends work through this process as well. freshman, you're right on the threshold of starting to build a name for yourself. I'm super stoked. I put Bryn, B-R-Y-N, in the search bar in Spotify, and this comes up top of the list. You're building a name for yourself, girl. I think that's, you really did me a favor by giving me such a unique name. It's pretty easy to create a brand when your name isn't Chloe or something. No hate to the Chloe's out there, but it's a lot harder to... For sure. Jeff Bezos is quoted as saying, your brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room. And I thought that was a pretty accurate description of how we have to be in charge of crafting what people think about us. And so lots of people talk about branding, and increasingly, there's this idea of a digital footprint and how what you put out there, for better or for worse, kind of sticks with you. And so, I'll open up, we'll go right into questions. Establishing yourself in the world is dependent on your ability to get people to know and trust you. So, first things first, know. What do you remember about the idea of being known when you were a kid? I do remember this story that I hadn't thought about it for a while, but now that you brought it up, I remember that there was a secretive little Christmas gift that Mama did for us, and she asked me and Taylor if you could be one word, like if one word to describe you or one word you would want to be, what would it be? And of course, it took me like days and a very long time to think of what I wanted my word to be. I can't just think of something like this is a very big deal, very important. So I thought about it for a really long time and finally I decided on known. And so she put it in like push pins on this big poster board and we hung it up and it was a Christmas gift and it was really nice and I still stand by that. I think then it was like, I want to be the best at something. I don't know what it is, I don't really care what it is, I just want to have something and that's my thing and I'm better than anyone else in the world at it. Now I realize that maybe that's quite the lofty goal and even if it is, it's not not necessarily like a productive goal. Like saying, I'm going to be the best at this could work, but it could also land you with a lot of heartache and a lot of guilt and telling yourself you're a failure, even if you're still working hard and doing your best. I think now that's shifted and I have a really big thing about like deep talks and I really love having deep talks with people. And I feel like I want to be known in that like people truly know me like they really know me, and not some sort of sanitized image that I'm presenting to the world. I want to, I want to be, and back then you wanted to be a scientist. So I don't know, you're going to cure cancer or do something along those lines, but interesting that now you're in this performance space, that's less important. And- Yeah. But I think that's important to being successful in a performance space. If your goal is just, I'm going to be the best singer. If there's a lot of people, that's their goal. So that's setting yourself up for a lot of heartaches of, Hey, I really love doing the same thing. I really love singing, or I really love doing any kind of art or just like any career, I really love doing this. And I want to use this as a way to meet people and get to know people and really know them and show people this side of myself and use it as a connection tool rather than a steps tool or like a ladder to what the world deems as success. I feel like that sets you up for a lot more happiness and peace rather than just like worldly success. Yeah. So if being known is the first aspect of this kind of triumvirate here of branding getting people to like us has been positive as the second and there's been lots of discussion about introverts versus extroverts. I can remember you actually applied to do a TED talk to talk about the strengths of introverts. This one, at least on a grand scale, can be a big challenge for people who are reserved. We chatted about how, man, those orientation kids get to run the whole It's all summer camp, fun people, extroversion run wild and the introverts are left drained at the end of the day. What are some ways that you think people that are more reserved can still be liked? You're not the antisocial. It's just part of who you are, but still be true to yourself. I think in kind of what I was saying before about deep talks, I feel like that's a commonly introverted thing, especially because in my head, what I think of as detox doesn't happen as well on a bigger scale. If you've got a ton of people and you're like, tell me your greatest fears, it's awkward. So I feel like introverts using the one-on-one method, getting to know people individually or really using the energy they have in a good way. I think Faith told a really interesting story to me. Faith is my friend. Hey Faith, she's great. She's very extroverted and she's always been that way. And she went to college and she has this new friend that she met and she said that he's very introverted but she said he's so refreshingly honest about it, which a lot of people aren't. They'll be like, hey, we're gonna go do this thing. We're gonna hang out. And he's, no, I just don't feel like it. And that's not a rude thing in our friend group. It's just, okay, we'll catch up with you later. And we'll have one-on-one conversations then, or we'll go out and it'll be just me and you and we'll get coffee together. And so working with strengths of connecting with people individually and specifically, I feel is a good way to people like you. And if you're honest like that, if you're just like vulnerable like that, and you're just like, oh no, I'm just, I don't have the social battery right now. But when I do, I'd love to. That'd be great. Yeah. And I love that. But I've also recognized that a lot of times if I were more extroverted, it would be easier to make those connections. I feel like true extroverts, they move in herds, like inch deep, mile wide kind of relationships. And I'm not being critical of extroverts. I'm jealous of them in many ways. Whereas more of an introvert, they're more of a mile deep and an inch wide. Like I want to have a deep talk with you and get to know you. For me, that's my family, a couple of trusted friends, but that doesn't serve me very well when it comes to branding. Because if you want to generate a following and have true influence, then the introvert really has to stretch themselves and function in a way that's contrary to maybe what they prefer. So that's why extroverts tend to rule the world because it's right in their wheelhouse. It's the, they're operating out of a strength as opposed to something we're not so crazy about. I think, like you said, if you're doing the inch wide mile deep thing for introverts, just remembering little details about people or like remembering things they've told you or showing them how well you know them for that little group, that smaller group of people that you do know. I feel like that, the word of that travels, hopefully, and you can, and people can see that you really are interested in knowing people. For sure. The last aspect is trust. So know, like, trust. I think it's pretty safe to say that authenticity seems to be in short supply. Lots of people on social media are the facades of influencers. Some people are. They do keep it real. What are some of the risks of quote unquote keeping it real as you build your brand? I think there's always someone who's going to be upset about what you say, especially if you're trying to keep it real like that. I think there's also just like a vulnerability. If you're saying things that don't really matter to you or you don't really care about and people are upset about it and you're just like, Oh, okay, I didn't really care, but if you're saying things that you really truly believe or coming from a really good place and people take it differently than you intended it, that's, that's a vulnerable place to be. And that's, it's pretty scary. Yeah. You read the head on the notes because that's the next point is being vulnerable. Big fan of Brene Brown's work. She's a recognized leader in all things vulnerability. And in her writing, she talks about how important it is that we take off our armor. We tend to defend ourselves against hurts by not being vulnerable. And when you think about people who really are vulnerable, it's refreshing. And we connect with them on a human level that maybe we don't if they are standoffish. Who are some artists or celebrities that you really look up to because they aren't afraid to show the world who they really are? This is an interesting one, but I feel like the one most people point to is they're like, Oh, she's so relatable as Jennifer Lawrence, she's so goofy and she's just, she's fun and scatterbrained. But I've seen something interesting and this might be completely off topic, but I've seen someone say something that everyone loves Jennifer Lawrence because she's her true authentic self or whatever. But everyone hates on Kristen Stewart because she's awkward too. But Jennifer Lawrence is the extrovert and Kristen Stewart is the introvert. And I have no idea if either of these people are actually introverts or extroverts. So that's just an interesting, just a little thought to ponder. I don't know. Do you have any? Yeah, I'm a big fan of David Goggins. He's a former Navy SEAL and in his book, Can't Hurt Me. And as a Christian and as a deacon in my church, there's so many things he says that I can't repost. He's definitely a little rough around the edges and he uses lots of colorful language, but that's who he is. And he doesn't apologize for it. And I find it inspiring to see what he's been through and the fact that he's not threatened or dissuaded in any way by needing to water down a message so that corporate America finds it more palatable. He just is who he is and take it or leave it. And as far as branding goes, you know what you get with him. There's no surprises. Whereas I feel like a lot of times, even as we've tried to work on your brand, when I look at my website, I've applied for a lot of jobs at secular schools or I look at the USOC, I've applied there several times, and my website makes mention of my faith. And that might not fly too well in a space like that. You as a Christian performing artist, like if, especially if you pursue musical theater and your website is all about your faith and your testimony. They assume you're this ultra conservative and you're gonna judge them and they skip over you before they even listen to you. That's part of your brand. And I've gone multiple ways with this. On one hand I used to think this is who I am. Take it or leave it and if you don't like it I'm probably not a good fit for you anyway. And on the other hand I really struggled because it's the ruling me out before they've even had a chance to rule me in. And yeah, that's who I am, but it's not like I'm going to go in and proselytize to everybody and expect them to repent at the altar as I try to do my job. It's part of who I am, and it governs how I interact with people. But I don't want it to be a reason I get excluded right off the bat. That's definitely why I think language is so important because I think the connotation with the word like Christian is so different now than and it's constantly changing, language is constantly changing which makes it difficult to keep up with but saying that means something to people and a lot of times it's not necessarily positive so even if I am a Christian, what that means to people and what I'm trying to say are two very different things. And so, I don't think it's being inauthentic to not be saying that everywhere because what we're trying to say is not the message that's being received. And for pretty good reason, for very good reason, I think either waiting to say it when you know someone and you're in a relationship with them where you guys can both understand what you're meaning rather than what the cultural connotation of it is, I think is really important. Yeah, I agree. Do you think there's a double standard when it comes to being vulnerable and what it means to be a man or a woman in today's society? Is it more or less okay for guys to be vulnerable? I really like this question. I feel like I should make you answer first because I feel like you you have an answer because you asked this question and I have I have a lot of thoughts and I bet I agree with you on a lot of things so don't think I'm trying to be like hey you answer first so I can argue with you but I want to hear your thoughts go for it. I think it's 10 years ago even, we focused on, in a lot of ways, society has tried to erase gender roles and say that they are completely wrong. And I still don't believe that. We aren't the same. That doesn't mean we're unequal. But I think the hyper-masculine answer is, no, I'm going to wall up. I'm not going to share anything that's bothering me. I'm never going to show my emotions. I'm never going to cry. If I tell you or if I share, if my brand is such that I'm tough and strong, then on days I'm not, I don't talk about that. I'm going to curate what you see. You're going to see just the pieces of me that match the narrative I'm trying to push. Narrative society says you can push. Yeah. But on the other hand, I feel like women have long been celebrated for being vulnerable and open and honest. And that's a great thing. Don't get me wrong. I think about the Me Too movement and how women have penetrated professions in areas like STEM where long-standing tradition where they didn't have opportunities to do that. And that's great. But I do feel like whether we admit it or not, our society still has a pretty clear double standard when it comes to being fully authentic and guys who get super vulnerable or effeminate. And that's not something a lot of men would want to be associated with them. Which is probably an issue in itself, but it's seen as feminine, so it's bad. I feel like there's a way that you're going to be received depending on your gender and depending on what you're expressing. Like you said, if a guy is expressing emotions and being vulnerable and all of that, he's a wimp or he's being feminine or there's a lot of negative connotations with that and he's not strong and not good enough. And so I think there's a lot of negative connotations there, but I also think. That, like you said, because there's been this movement, women trying to get into STEM or trying to work their way into fields that are, that have always been male dominated, trying to become a CEO or in politics, there's no room for women to show vulnerability there either. I think there's always some kind of standard and there's always something that society is saying, you can do this or you can't do this. And in order to be successful based off of what the world says is successful, you have to just buy into those things. Everyone watch this video. It's very interesting. There's a video on YouTube, Khadija Mbow, and she has this video based and it's about black masculinity and the roles that they've been assigned. She also has a video on toxic masculinity that's really interesting and I think it ties into this a lot just that there there are standards where like all right you can express these emotions you can have like anger or men can show anger or there's very few it's a very limited list Very interesting video. I feel like There's standards for everyone and they're all bad because we tell people like all right you're because of this identity that you have you can have these things or This other identity and it's very reductive. Yeah, it's like inside out There's only four emotions at the control panel Whereas women are complex emotional beings and they've got all this gamut that they can express. I'm not saying right or wrong, I'm saying that's what society would tell us. All right, so let's pivot a little bit. We talked about knowing trust and how important it is to be our authentic selves. Let's get practical. So what are some keys to building a brand to kind of the forward facing Brennan Brooks potential employers or grad programs or internships. What are some keys you do? We talked about mission. How would you describe your mission that you want the world to see? I think just with the one word that we've always used as my brand, and we've come up with as my brand is the growth thing. My mission is to no matter what I'm doing, find a way to grow or be growing through that because I know that I changed my mind a lot and so what I'm doing from day to day, from week to week, from hour to hour might change. Who knows? But as long as I'm growing somewhere, that's the mission. Right. I added this on the signature line of my email 15 years ago. And it's in bold and it's in italics and it says, what are you about? And that's your why. And being in touch with your why. This stems from a Rascal Flatts song called When the Sand Runs Out. And he's talking about how a friend passed away and at his funeral, he was having all these thoughts about the life that his friend had lived. And he's reflecting on some choices he's made that seeing the temporary of his friend's life, what he wants to be about is to love his people as hard as he can. And so my mission that I'm trying to build and connect to and whatever position I have, anything I put out in the world, whether it's a podcast or a video, whatever. Another shout out to my pastor who believes in alliteration and three-point sermons, infuse light, inspire new levels and improve lives. And that's really what I want everything I do to connect with. That's my why. And this podcast being an example where hopefully someone listening to this would be encouraged and inspired and recognize that growth just like you mentioned is a conscious everyday choice. I hate the idea of motivation. I can get motivated to work out but two weeks from now the motivation fizzles out. It's the dedication that's going to deliver me through those days that aren't so great. So the mission is the first step. And I think that's consistently seen. Like we said, your website has a look and a feel. Your business card has a look and a feel. Your resume, I'm so proud of the resume that we put together for you. It looks better than mine. But I love on the left-hand column on your resume, you list out your core values. I don't know if you recall those, but if your mission is your why, your values are your how. How do you intend to accomplish your why? I don't have those four step points, I don't have them listed out like you, but I think new experiences is very important to growth. Getting out of your comfort zone, I don't really like to do that one, but I know that's important. I remember when you, this was part of your college essay process where you kind of had to form this as answers. And for any high school seniors out there, this is a very important formative process. And what you come up with, it seems like busy work, but it really can help propel you once you make that decision. I love your principles, the grow up, the grow out, and the grow with. Talk me through how you came up with those three core principles. I think we just said that growing up, you want to develop mentally and learn about who you are and who you can become. So you're growing yourself, you are growing up, maturing, learning more about yourself. And then there's growing out, which is you apply the personal growth that you figure out for yourself by connecting and contributing to the world around you. So this is about together, you're growing with other people. So you grow up, then you grow out with others, and then grow with, which you share the journey of growing up and out with those around you. Up yourself out into the world and with people alongside you. Yeah. For me, I came up with service first, whether that's in leadership, whether that's in family, whatever. Mine like you, always growing, following the model of Luke 2.52, wisdom, stature, favor with God, man, mental, physical, spiritual, social. Relentless pursuit. It's real tempting. I have a horrible habit of coming up with great ideas and then letting them fizzle out before they reach completion. Just today I gave up on one of the most audacious goals I've ever had to build this stupid show car and nine years later, it's not even been painted. So when I look at things like that, it's man, I started well, but I wasn't relentless in the pursuit. For me, I always say hustle to the ball. If I'm not diving, if I'm not putting in full effort, then that's not on brand for me. And then the last one is vigilant action. This comes from, you picked the book. Do you remember the book that it was from? It's by Atul Gawande. Yeah, Atul Gawande. Complications. Complications, yeah. He talked about how anesthesiologists embrace the idea of vigilance, because during the early days of surgery, patients were laying on the table and dying because the anesthesiologist wasn't paying attention, and he or she wasn't monitoring the vitals. And without being vigilant, the patient was dying under the knife. And so vigilance means constantly monitoring, not letting weeds sprout up, paying attention to the small things. And some of the biggest mistakes I've made in life, some of them were active, like it was an act of commission, but others were passive. They were acts of omission. I just failed to pay attention. And so when we have these core values, the beauty of this is, and especially when we have trusted others, there's accountability there. Is this behavior forwarding my brand? Is this on brand for me? I've aspired to be this person. Am I serving? No, I'm not. I either need to change my values to match my behavior or better, I need to change my behavior to match my value. Another thing we talked about with branding that the design folks among us would certainly believe in this, but the rest of us don't give it much thought. And I think about my students in sports medicine, their resumes are always white paper with black ink. That's a missed opportunity. Being purposeful, even in things like the color scheme that you choose. Tay's got a logo, you have a logo. Talk to me about your decision just for your logo and your color scheme? I think I just started out trying to think about my, first of all, my favorite colors, just things that I enjoy and that I like. My favorite color is brown, which is not always a super eye-catching color that's really gonna make my resume stand out. Although I stand by the fact that it's my favorite, it's still great. But my second favorite is green and it goes along with growth perfectly. It's really good. And green goes with brown too, so we can add that in there too. But I think I just try to think of the vibe I have as well. Like, just like calm and chill, but comforting. I know I wear green a lot too. Like, I just, that's my vibe. Just like nice and comfy and artsy. So I think that's why I decided to go for green. For those who are listening and not viewing, Brennan is wearing a green, white, and yellow sweater as we speak. It's true. It's very true. Mustard yellow. Yeah. So we worked hard to make sure you had a consistent look and feel in everything you had to present. And that it was all the same. Yeah. Your resume included a headshot. That created a problem. What was the issue with actually including a photo on your resume? Do you remember? Didn't someone just say that we're considering your accomplishments, we don't want to see who you are? I want to say that was for OU, for the Writing Center. They said they wouldn't even allow you to apply. It's common in the arts. You have headshots. And I remember looking lots of places to see templates and formatting. And so I included, I've never included a headshot. That's not gonna help me land a job to have my ugly mug on there. But for you, if you're looking for theater productions or in your case, and you were a birthday party princess, like whether it's on your resume or not, they're interested in your appearance. And so our thought was, yeah, go ahead and include it. But we did have to pull it off for that one job you applied for. Your website, talk to me about that. This was created as part of your college application process. And I started writing a blog now, slug. Everyone read my blog, but wait a good amount of time for me to actually get it uploaded on the website. But yeah, I think my website matches the whole vibe. It matches all the all the growth themes and it's got accomplishments and hopefully once I start doing this vlog regularly it'll just have some fun goofy get to know me stuff. We have some of that on there already too from just like random writings I've done and stuff like that. Yeah, I really like my personal website. For those of you that are listening, great idea. Search your name on GoDaddy. Even if you don't plan to build a website for yourself or your kid, squad on it. You don't want somebody of questionable character with your same name that you get confused with. So, we actually did this as a process with your friends and I purchased websites in their name as a gift gift so that whenever they are ready to build their brand online, they've already secured that space in the internet. For my website, one problem, and this is an admission, just like you mentioned with the blog, if I don't only post on there once every two years, that doesn't reflect well on my brand. So if you are going to have a blog, commit to the process, whether it's once a month or once a week, whatever is reasonable. I think it's important to be regular about that. And it just reflects poorly when, hey, welcome to my blog. I'm going to post. It's almost like a diary. I'm so happy I have this and I'm going to write every day. And that's the last entry and the rest of the pages are blank. Podcasts are another way to get yourself out there. And so we've experimented with that. We use a tool called Buzzsprout, which is instrumental, so no plug. But the thing I love about all of these is the old approach to landing a job or getting an interview even was resume and cover letter. That was it. And it was all the same font and it was black and white. And there was nothing about that gave you insight into who I am as a person. With this, your website is unlimited real estate. You've got all these pictures, fun facts about yourself that would never appear on a resume, but potential employers, people that you could collaborate with, they can get to know you in a much better way. All right, dear, that wraps us for another week. It's been a pleasure We'll see you all next time As it turns out it's darn near impossible to reach our fullest potential these days without paying at least some attention to what our various Outward facing things like that resume cover letter social media or even things like websites and podcasts have to say about us For Brennan as a growing artist in the performance space, it's maybe even more important. My take home for today is that how we do anything is how we do everything. By paying close attention to all aspects of my brand, I think it helps me extend my reach and hopefully help me impact more people. What about you? What are you waiting on or working for? And what are you doing in the meantime to get better every day? I'd love to hear about it. Surf over to undonepodcast.com and drop me a note. For more info on today's episode, be sure to check it out on the web. Simply go to undonepodcast.com backslash EP66 to see the notes, links, and images related to today's guest, Brennan Brooks. Coming up, I've got former Division I softball player turned orthopedic physician assistant Kelly Henderson Chapman and physical therapist and entrepreneurship expert F. Scott Fiel. So stay tuned. This and more coming up on Becoming Undone. Becoming Undone is a NitroHype Creative production written and produced by me, Toby Brooks. I'm always on the lookout for inspiring stories, so if you or someone you know has one to share, please contact me at undonepodcast.com. Follow the show at Becoming Undone Pod and me at Toby J. Brooks on Facebook, Instagram, X, LinkedIn, and TikTok. Subscribe and leave me a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts. word to the third.