EP90: CHAMPION with Neil Kennedy, Author, Speaker, and Founder of FivestarMan

About the Guest

Neil Kennedy: Neil Kennedy is an accomplished author, speaker, and founder of the FivestarMan movement. Over the years, he has authored 14 influential books, many of which have been translated into multiple languages and circulated globally. Intriguingly, despite grappling with a speech impediment and failing grammar classes in his early years, Neil has achieved remarkable success. The FivestarMan movement, which aims to resurrect authentic manhood through the five passions of authentic manhood, has profoundly impacted hundreds of thousands of men worldwide. His inspirational journey from an isolated job in the coal mines to an empowering leader for men demonstrates the power of faith and resilience.

Episode Summary

Welcome to another enriching episode of Becoming UnDone. This week, Toby Brooks sits down with Neil Kennedy, a powerhouse in men's ministry and founder of the successful Five Star Man movement. Neil candidly shares his journey—from a tumultuous childhood in Oklahoma marred by addiction, alcoholism, and serial adultery—to finding God and reshaping his destiny. Amidst the isolation of working long nights alone at a coal mine, Neil experienced a transformative encounter with faith that guided him to change his life and eventually touch the lives of thousands of men globally through his ministry.

In this episode, Neil discusses the critical role mentorship played in his life, how he overcame several personal and professional hurdles, and the genesis of the FivestarMan movement. He emphasizes the importance of self-discipline, resilience, and maintaining a strong sense of purpose. With the same zeal, Neil explains the unique framework of FivestarMan, which focuses on igniting men's internal motivations rather than imposing external standards. Through his story, we learn practical steps to achieve authentic manhood and the significance of directional intent in transforming both personal and professional lives.

Key Takeaways

• Power of Mentorship: Zig Ziglar's book See You at the Top was instrumental in inspiring young Neil and directing his life towards meaningful pursuits.
• Transformational Faith: Neil's faith journey began in isolation while working at a coal mine, eventually leading him to ministry and a newfound purpose.
• Resilience and Character: Emphasizing victory over victimhood, Neil discusses how personal adversity helped build resilience and determination.
• Five Star Man Framework: Introduction to the five core passions of authentic manhood: adventurous spirit, entrepreneurial drive, gallant relationships, faithful character, and philanthropic cause.
• Holistic Development: The importance of physical transformation and maintaining comprehensive well-being for fulfilling one's purpose.

Notable Quotes

• "After the devastation of losing what I thought was a dream and finally crying out to God...it was the first time I actually heard the voice of God in my spirit."
• "I'm just trying to expose who God made men to be... It's drawing out from their heart what they really are without all of the perversions of toxicity in culture."
• "You either embrace the victimh

Transcript

0:00:00 - (Neil Kennedy): It's interesting. I lost my first love. I was working 12 hours a night from 07:00 p.m. to 07:00 a.m. and I worked alone. I actually, they would never be allowed to do this now, but at the time I worked alone, pumping water out of the open pit. And all I did was I set up water pumps and I managed them throughout the night. So I had a lot of alone time, a lot of downtime, and worked seven nights a week. So you're living in isolation, you're having to look at the stars. And finally, after the devastation of losing what I thought was a dream and finally crying out to God one night at 03:00 a.m.

0:00:43 - (Neil Kennedy): and I asked God, do you know me? Do you care? And it was the first time I actually heard the voice of God in my spirit. And he said, yes, I know you, and I know you by your name, and I've given you the spirit of a son, that you may call me Abba. And so I just said, I've got to do something different. So when I came to Christ, it was during that time in the coal mine. Honestly, God used that isolation to mold me.

0:01:13 - (Neil Kennedy): I'm Neil Kennedy, and I am undone.

0:01:26 - (Toby Brooks): Hey, friend, I'm glad you're here. Welcome to yet another episode of Becoming Undone, the podcast for those who dare bravely, risk mightily and grow relentlessly, y'all. I know it's been a while, but I'm happy to say that I'm back and I've got some exciting news to share with you later on in this episode, so stick around.

0:01:43 - (Toby Brooks): If you're new to the show, I.

0:01:44 - (Toby Brooks): Should probably introduce myself. I'm Toby Brooks, a speaker, an author, and a professor. I've spent much of the last two decades working as an athletic trainer and a strength coach in the professional, collegiate, and high school sports settings. And over the years, ive grown more and more fascinated with what sets high achievers apart and how failures that can suck in the moment can end up being exactly the push we needed to propel us on our path to success.

0:02:08 - (Toby Brooks): Each week on becoming undone, I invite new guests to examine how high achievers can transform from falling apart to falling into place. Id like to emphasize that this show is entirely separate from my day job, although for the moment, Im unemployed and in between jobs. More on that in a second. But it's my attempt to apply what I've learned and what I'm learning, and to share with others about the mindsets of high achievers.

0:02:47 - (Toby Brooks): On July 1, I said goodbye to my job of the past 14 and a half years when I walked out the door for the last time at the Texas Tech University Health Sciences center. It's been a mostly fantastic decade and a half in West Texas, and I've lived in Lubbock longer than anywhere else. On July 15, I start a new job in a new direction at Baylor University in Waco, Texas, about five or so hours southeast of the place I've called home, raised a family, and otherwise just did life.

0:03:19 - (Toby Brooks): Just like in the song closing time, every new beginning comes from some other beginnings. End. So much has changed in my world in the past four months that honestly, if I stop and think about it, it gets to be overwhelming, even in retrospect. I announced my resignation in April. In May, our son played in his last baseball game, something he's done ever since he was four years old. He graduated from high school.

0:03:45 - (Toby Brooks): I finished up my MBA. We put our house up for sale. Sadly, we had to put our dog of 13 years, Carmel, down just a couple weeks ago. And there are still huge life changes ahead as we hopefully sell our house, move tae into college, move to Waco, buy a new house, and eventually adjust to this new season of life. But before all that, we decided to take a vacation, a much needed retreat to celebrate the end of something familiar and wonderful in the form of our family's past and the start of something new and unfamiliar. A new job, a new community, new house and an empty nest.

0:04:23 - (Toby Brooks): We spent a week together, just the four of us, most likely for the last time, a schedules, significant others, and the reality of kids becoming and being adults with lives to live of their own making. The likelihood of just the four of us together for any extended period of time less and less likely by the day, part of me was tempted to grieve. It was sad to think about the fact that this might be it.

0:04:49 - (Toby Brooks): For the most part, I managed to fight that back. Just that there have been so many lasts these days. The truth is that watching these two grow up and being there to see them pursue what they love has just been so good. Having a job that allowed me to be fully present all these years has been a blessing, too. And seeing my wife and seeing the impact she's made in so many people's lives through her work has been awesome, too.

0:05:17 - (Toby Brooks): I get that. I do. Last week, I got to play catch on the beach with my son. I got to share deep conversations with my daughter about what her future might look like. And I got to hear my wife share her heart about what it's meant for her to have to leave her job of several years and faced the prospect of starting over, too. It was a much needed time of connection with them, but also reflection for me.

0:05:44 - (Toby Brooks): I had a chance to think back on what's gone well and what could have gone better. But the flip side of that is that I know that there is a mountain of new firsts coming with all these changes and stuff, not to mention that new degree that took up tons of time. I wasn't nearly as reliable with the show as I wanted to be. I haven't been able to tell stories of high achievers who either are no longer with us or who have inspired me from afar.

0:06:11 - (Toby Brooks): That's all going to change from here on out. Unless I tell you otherwise. I'll be releasing a new episode every Thursday night at 07:00 p.m. that's the primo, old school primetime slot the likes of friends used to hold, so I think that's as good as any. If you're a pre streaming dinosaur like me, you remember what it was like to know when and where the newest episode of your favorite tv show was going to be on.

0:06:36 - (Toby Brooks): And even if it was a rerun, just knowing that that would be there for you on a certain day at a certain time was like a warm, fluffy blanket that you could wrap yourself up in all comfy like so. For now, you can count on Thursdays at 07:00 p.m. as being the time when a new episode drops. I may also sprinkle some extras in there. There may be some others on weeks where I drop multiples, but for the rest of this year, that's going to be my slot.

0:07:04 - (Toby Brooks): We'll see how it goes. This week I read a great quote by one of my favorite social fellows, Eric Keister. He wrote, failure is a bruise, not a tattoo. It's a succinct and powerful way to state that our setbacks can leave a mark. They can be painful, too, but they don't have to be permanent. This week's guest is proof positive of this concept. Author and speaker Neil Kennedy routinely inspires auditoriums full of people, sometimes numbering in the thousands.

0:07:34 - (Toby Brooks): But by his own admission, he had a speech impediment and didn't say his first words until he was three or four years old. He's written and published 14 books so far, many translated into other languages and sold and read around the world. But by his accounts, he failed grammar classes growing up. Despite those setbacks he has overcome along the way, and he founded Five Star man, an international men's movement that has touched the lives of hundreds of thousands of men already with the idea that we were created with a divinely inspired purpose.

0:08:09 - (Toby Brooks): I hope you'll enjoy my conversation with five star man founder Neil Kennedy in episode 90 Champion.

0:08:16 - (Toby Brooks): Joining me this week is good friend, author, founder of Five Star Man, Neal Kennedy. Neal, welcome to the show, man.

0:08:23 - (Neil Kennedy): I am really honored and glad to be with you. And first of all, congratulations on everything that's happening in your life, and I just celebrate you.

0:08:33 - (Toby Brooks): Thank you so much. You have been a huge part of many of the positive changes. I've got some men in my life who have. Who have really poured in, either directly or indirectly. In your case, a little bit of both. And so I stumbled across your work, five star man, the five passions of authentic manhood, I want to say, eight or nine years ago. I think it was published in 2013. And so we will get into that and talk about your movement.

0:09:01 - (Toby Brooks): But I always start at the beginning for you. As a young man growing up, what do you want to be and why?

0:09:09 - (Neil Kennedy): Wow. Great question to start the podcast. I was raised in rural Oklahoma, and I was not raised in a christian family. I was not raised in a stable household. And a lot of challenges, a lot of drug addiction, alcoholism, and serial adultery was modeled before me. So I left home at 17, and as soon as I graduated high school, I was on my own and worked in a coal mine in southeast Oklahoma for four years before I went to college. And so I kind of had lofty dreams of maybe being a veterinarian, going to Oklahoma State University.

0:09:52 - (Neil Kennedy): But I never had anyone mentor me. And my father was out of the picture since I was five years of age. So I never had a mentor. My mom's second husband certainly didn't mentor me. In fact, he didn't like me at all. He really embraced my brother, but for whatever reason, he just absolutely just didn't like me. And so he never mentored me. And so I grew up without any mentoring influence, and I discovered mentorship.

0:10:24 - (Neil Kennedy): Believe it or not, reading a zig Ziglar book. See you at the top. And that was the first time I read something that inspired me to say, I can be more than what I am, and I can do more than what I've seen. And so, really, I owe it to Zig Ziglar and that book. And that's why I'm so passionate about writing. And, yeah, I know you've written 20 books. I've written 14 books. I'll try to catch up with you but I'm telling you, that set the tone.

0:10:54 - (Neil Kennedy): One of the things it did, it got me into reading proverbs every morning. And there's one chapter for every day of the month. And I started reading proverbs even before I became a convert to Christ.

0:11:09 - (Toby Brooks): I'll jump right in here and point out a couple of things. First, Neil, as much as anyone, understands the need in a person's life to have someone to look up to and someone to model behavior after, sadly for him, it was an example of what not to do. Young Neil suffers the loss of his traditional family at just five years of age. When a new man enters the picture in the form of his stepdad, it's not the kind of relationship he would have hoped for.

0:11:36 - (Toby Brooks): You know, many times in our life, whether it's a family member, a boss, or a person who should be an authority figure in our lives, we either get the positive shining example with whom in which we can pattern our lives after, or we get the what not to do version that teaches us lessons the hard way. Sometimes that comes in the form of things we don't get that we want, like affection and encouragement.

0:12:00 - (Toby Brooks): Other times, it's things we do get that we don't want, like mental or physical abuse. For Neil, sadly, his home life was a mix of both, causing him to eventually launch out on his own at just 17 years of age. And if it weren't for a book by legendary speaker and author Zig Ziglar, who knows what would have happened? However, in those pages, Neil found hope and inspiration that he could do great things.

0:12:27 - (Toby Brooks): He found the beginnings of restoration that would help him move past those painful early years. And he started to believe in himself. And he wasn't alone. Zieglim's works are legendary. Although he passed in 2012, his writings and YouTube videos are pretty much required reading and watching for aspiring motivational speakers. But Zeigler, too, navigated more than his share of disappointments and setbacks on his way to success.

0:12:54 - (Toby Brooks): Zeigler's father died of a stroke when he was just six years old, and tragically, his younger sister also passed unexpectedly just two days later. Zeigler famously was a college dropout, but discovered his love and knack for speaking in 1963. The work Neil first read, see you at the top, was just his second book, published in 1975, but it has sold more than 1.6 million copies. And like Zeigler, Neil found encouragement and inspiration despite his circumstances.

0:13:28 - (Toby Brooks): And even though he didn't know it yet, it would be a critical mile post on his very own journey to impact the world.

0:13:36 - (Neil Kennedy): And so that discipline, that was the first time I implemented a discipline in my life and that began to set the tone of change for me.

0:13:47 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah. One of my previous guests, Roger Leipe, was my FCA director in college, and he had mentioned there's 31 chapters in proverbs and at most there's 31 days in the month. So it's a pretty cool template. Wherever you are, just start there. And so seeing that modeled by two men that I deeply respect is a gentle nudge and reminder that maybe I need to take up that practice as well. Growing up, I grew up in, in rural southern Illinois, mostly underground coal mines, but some open pit as well.

0:14:16 - (Toby Brooks): That's tough work. And so you find yourself 1718 years old and you are making a living, you're, you're earning a paycheck. And as they say, that money is good, but lots of times it's not real reliable. And so a career in the colonization industry or the oil industry can be a real challenge for anyone. So talk me through that impetus for change when you were locked in early and maybe had these goals of going to college, but reality really set in what led to the change from that life in the coal mine to a career in ministry.

0:14:54 - (Neil Kennedy): It's interesting, I lost my first love. I was working 12 hours a night from 07:00 p.m. to 07:00 a.m. and I worked alone. I actually, they would never be allowed to do this now, but at the time I worked alone, pumping water out of the open pit. And all I did was I set up water pumps and I managed them throughout the night. So I had a lot of loan time, a lot of downtime, and worked seven nights a week. So you're living in isolation, you're having to look at the stars. And finally, after the devastation of losing what I thought was a dream and finally crying out to God one night at 03:00 a.m.

0:15:37 - (Neil Kennedy): and I asked God, do you know me? Do you care? And it was the first time I actually heard the voice of God in my spirit. And he said, yes, I know you, and I know you by your name, and I've given you the spirit of a son, that you may call me Abba. I didn't know what, I didn't know what Abba meant. I thought it was that musical group from. Where are they from? Sweden. I never heard the word Abba and I never read that portion of scripture. I never ventured out of proverbs.

0:16:09 - (Neil Kennedy): In fact, I hadn't discovered proverbs as of yet. And so that began the process of me crying out to God and finally coming to the knowledge of Jesus Christ as Lord and surrendering my life. And that began to set a pattern of change on a whole nother level. And I answered a call to ministry. I went to Bible College, seminary, and began to pursue ministry, which was so far out of my world that I had no idea what I was getting into when I got to Bible college.

0:16:47 - (Neil Kennedy): Being from Oklahoma, all I had was wranglers, boots, and my wrangler still had skull rings in the back pocket. And so when I showed up, I don't know if they knew what they were accepting when I applied, but that began a change in my life, and it really has been a dream of seeing what the Lord can do with, with my life. And I'm excited about what God is continuing to do.

0:17:18 - (Toby Brooks): Right. I had a conversation with my now late uncle. I was considering going into ministry, maybe even as a missionary. And his first question to me was, does that pay really well? I'm like, that's not really what it's all about. But so I totally understand. That's a foreign concept in a lot of circles. And for you to step out in that kind of a faith without a mentor and without a community of believers around you is really remarkable.

0:17:47 - (Toby Brooks): So this sets some pretty dramatic changes in order, and your life is headed off in a whole different direction. We oftentimes will warn new believers like, this is not a free pass. This doesn't mean life's going to get easier in many respects. Sometimes it gets harder. So what would you say your relationship with failure was like at this stage of your life? And what had failure or setback or adversity taught you at this stage?

0:18:15 - (Neil Kennedy): That's a great frame question, because what's interesting is I had experienced so much failure in childhood that I was looking for a way. How do you build a life that you can bounce back quickly? And I saw very quickly that sedations, either drugs or alcohol, is not the answer. It just is worse. New, inappropriate relationships, those are not the answer. Not that smart. But it's insanity to just repeat this generational curse and expect that you're going to have a good life. And so I just said, I've got to do something different. So when I came to Christ, it was during that time in the coal mine, honestly, God used that isolation to mold me.

0:19:09 - (Neil Kennedy): I was able to spend so much time reading the word at work after I got the water pumps going that I've gained so much knowledge quickly during that season that I was on a fast track of scriptural digestion and so forth. So all of that began to set and motion this desire to please the Lord and build a life that is pleasing unto him. And so when I did that, I think I had an advantage. So that when God challenged me to plant a church, I wasn't afraid to do that because I had spent so much time in isolation.

0:19:54 - (Neil Kennedy): I didn't have to have a support structure around me to motivate me. I was motivated by this, by the word and what I was feeling, the Lord directing me. I did obviously married well. I married a girl that was raised a christian. She had all of the advantages of a great home. I mean, I really married the very opposite of what my life was like. And so when I did face failure and when I did face opposition, I was pretty much able to handle those kinds of resistance because of the training. It's almost like God took what was meant for evil and turned out for my good because I was resilient.

0:20:37 - (Neil Kennedy): I was able to bounce back. I had, I'm sure you're aware, strength finders. My children were all into strength finders when they were in college, university. So they wanted me to take it, and so I did. And the number one that came back was self assurance. And my daughter was like, dad, I've never seen anyone that had number one of self assurance. And I said, well, I think it's a misread. And she goes, no, you can't blame the test. I said, no.

0:21:03 - (Neil Kennedy): What I mean by that is I have no confidence in my flesh, but I have no doubt of who I am in Christ. And so I am absolutely assured that if I walk in obedience to him, then he's going to work all things out for my good. And so I'm going to just. I'm assured of that.

0:21:23 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah, I think so many times when we're in the midst of those struggles, no one would choose to have the upbringing that you had. But with that, I oftentimes talk about, I remember seeing the climbing wall in the rec center at my university, and they would change the handholds every so often, so that it was this constantly changing thing. If there were no handholds on it, no one could scale to the top.

0:21:48 - (Toby Brooks): To me, failure and adversity are like those handholds where other people can connect with our story, and it gives you a connection point with someone that's coming from a family that's struggling with addictions or with broken homes or those types of things. And so we would never have chosen that story. But when it becomes ours, we can either use it for good, or it can just be there to harm us.

0:22:13 - (Neil Kennedy): You either embrace the victimhood, or you turn it to be your victory. And that's where the real decision is made, is, do you have the character to say, okay, I'm just gonna wallow in this victimhood, or am I gonna choose victory? I wish I would have written the book. I love preaching on Jabez. And of course, Bruce Wilkerson wrote the book the Prayer Jabez. I preached on it before he wrote the book. And it was going to be. My first book is Jabez.

0:22:50 - (Neil Kennedy): But my emphasis on Jabez is that prayer was the byproduct of his character, and his character was honored. The Bible says that Jabez was more honorable than his brothers, even though he was born in pain or he was born named Jabez, which means pain. So he experienced all of the pain, and he could have just been like his brothers and said, I'm just going to be another begat, and I'm going to go down in history as just a name in the genealogy.

0:23:24 - (Neil Kennedy): But he did something different. He cried out to the Lord because of that ingredient of honor. And that's what distinguishes you and me or anyone else. We all have these challenges. We all have these opposition. Who is it, Einstein? That said, nothing of great value has ever achieved without facing violent opposition. And so when we face that, that's our choice. That is when the character comes up and says, are you honorable or are you not? Are you going to go the victimhood? Are you going to choose victory?

0:24:03 - (Neil Kennedy): And unfortunately, we're in a culture that celebrates the victim. We're no longer celebrating achievement. We're wanting to celebrate the victim, not the victor. And that leads to a repetition of stupidity.

0:24:19 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah. And I think, for me, it's oftentimes confounding or disappointing. Like, you make that decision, but it's a daily decision. It's not just, okay, I'm going to choose to be the victor, and then, okay, from here on out, I'm good. You have to actively choose that. And there are days when we can throw our own pity party and feel like I didn't have the same advantages of other people. And that just starts this whole process of explaining away.

0:24:49 - (Toby Brooks): But the strength that I've gained from your work is recognizing that.

0:24:54 - (Toby Brooks): It's habit, it's repetition. It is.

0:24:56 - (Toby Brooks): You said the word discipline. Motivation is one thing, but that's fleeting. And once that's gone, what I've left.

0:25:03 - (Toby Brooks): But if I'm disciplined, if I can.

0:25:06 - (Toby Brooks): Do it when I don't want to, then that's what's going to cultivate the real change. So you made this transition, and you enter into this path of ministry, and that's not what you do today. You're not a small town country church pastor. You are impacting millions around the globe, and you didn't start off in that direction. So talk me through the early phases of your ministry and what that was like.

0:25:33 - (Neil Kennedy): Wow. You know, I started out almost on a normal track. I became a youth pastor. And then the Lord prompted me to plant a church, and it was in a bedroom community of mobile, Alabama, and it was some kind of wealthy, up and very motivated people. But there wasn't a very solid church. And so we went in, planted a church, and because of that, I got surrounded, like all my board members and everyone around me were all of these high influence achievers.

0:26:09 - (Neil Kennedy): And I really learned so much from them, pastoring them and pastoring their families and their children. And it was the very opposite of what I was raised by in what I saw. And so that really helped me as well. And then I was asked to serve megachurch as the executive pastor. So then I was able to see ministry on a massive scale, 12,000 people on the weekend, but also a national, international ministry with all types of publishing and curriculum and things of that nature. So I learned a lot.

0:26:49 - (Neil Kennedy): And so as I saw what God was doing, he was preparing me. And then finally I planted another church. And then finally, the Lord spoke to me about speaking to Mendez, Toby, my story that was so far removed from where I was tracking, but it was a divine call. And so once I got that man, I all in and do not despise formal beginnings. We started very small and just started laying the groundwork. So for the last 14 years, we've been working very diligently to get this message to men, to encourage them, strengthen them. And now we're seeing the results.

0:27:32 - (Neil Kennedy): And we've never been better poised as we are right now to see what God originally intended for me to do right.

0:27:39 - (Toby Brooks): And I want to be careful how I phrase that, because it's not meant as a slight to a small town pastor. Ministry occurs where ministry occurs, and it occurs through and to people who are uniquely prepared.

0:27:52 - (Toby Brooks): Hopefully.

0:27:53 - (Neil Kennedy): Let me reiterate that, because that's how I was saved. I was saved in that small, rural church. And the pastor who led me to Christ, God used in a remarkable way when I was coming from work early in the morning, I would go home, get cleaned up, have breakfast, grab some sleep, and then in the afternoon, I would swing by his office and I had a yellow pad of questions that I had read the scriptures, and I just came with 2030 questions every morning or every afternoon. And God bless him, he just took time and nurtured me, and God used him in an incredible way. And there's so many powerful men of God who are serving in those capacities. And, yes, you and I celebrate that.

0:28:46 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah.

0:28:47 - (Toby Brooks): And I think it's also important to point out how now that you're on the training of mentors side of the equation, how exciting it is when a young person, and in your case, a men's ministry, a young man, comes to you just consuming and full of questions like those. Your eyes light up when you see an opportunity to serve someone in that way or to just come alongside them in that way. So I know that five star man has grown into this incredible organization with global reach.

0:29:19 - (Toby Brooks): And like you said, it started small. Talk me through. I've heard the story, but I want my listeners to hear it for sure. That moment of inspiration and revelation in which you knew that this path you were on, as good as it had been and as much as it had served you, you were headed in a remarkably different direction.

0:29:36 - (Neil Kennedy): Yeah, I planted two churches, served a megachurch. So I had this experience that was very unique, planting a church with no one and growing it from that to hundreds of people and turning that church into a large church and ministry and then a mega church, managing all of that. So I had this unique perspective. And so I wrote a book called seven Laws, which govern increasing order. And it was a seminar, and I would go in and help churches and nonprofits and businesses actually begin to buy that book and just use those principles of growth and increase and how to manage it and how to grow.

0:30:22 - (Neil Kennedy): And it was just things that I picked up and learned. These principles govern the extremes. And so that was a real advantage. And I. I was living a pretty good life at that moment because I'm consulting. There was churches that put me on retainer to just be able to call me, and nonprofits paying me a retainer. And that was a different part of the. The equation that I had never had. I'd always been on a pastoral salary, and now I have this consulting business where people are just paying me for things that I've learned.

0:30:56 - (Neil Kennedy): And God really used that first season of time, and I thought, this is a good gig. I want to stay here. And I was actually flying into Tulsa, Oklahoma. I was living in Fairhope, Alabama, at the time, and I had a nonprofit here that wanted me for 24 hours. And so I came in, and when the plane hit the tarmac, the Holy Spirit spoke to me. There again, that voice of God spoke in such a way, I knew it was him.

0:31:26 - (Neil Kennedy): And he said, I want you to build a movement to resurrect authentic manhood. And I know this, when you think you hear from the Lord, you want to write it down and you want to meditate on it. Meditate means to chew on, so you want to chew on it for a little while. And so the next thing that the spirit said was, focus on men's purposes, and he'll cast off what constrains him. So I wrote that down at that moment. I just leaned back in the seat.

0:31:59 - (Neil Kennedy): I'm sitting in what I call common man's first class, which is the exit row. And I'm just sitting there, and I'm like, I don't even know what the purposes of a man are. I had actually lived up to that point not knowing really what a man is supposed to be. Biblically. We had these ideas. We get committees together, and people come up with what the image of what they think a man of God is. But what does the Bible actually say a man is?

0:32:34 - (Neil Kennedy): And so that is what put me on this path track to discover that. And that's how five star man came out to be. The term five star man, the three compounding is the word five star man. And it comes from five categories of purpose that we discovered in proverbs, chapter 24, verse five. Going back to proverbs, again, proverbs 20, verse five, it says, the purposes of a man's heart are deep waters, a man of understanding. Draw them out.

0:33:07 - (Neil Kennedy): That tells me where they are, but he didn't tell me what they are. And all you have to do is look at the definition of the word man and the definition of the word ish. Word for man is ish, not Adam, which is Adam? This one is each. And if you categorize each, you come up with all kinds of descriptives. Champion, priest, citizen, businessman, warrior, valiant. You come up with all of these categories or descriptives, and I put them into five categories.

0:33:46 - (Neil Kennedy): All of these words could fit into five different categories. And that's where the term five star maintained.

0:33:54 - (Toby Brooks): When I first came across Neil's book, Five Star Man, I was in a pretty dark place. I was looking for purpose. My spiritual life felt like it was on life support. My work felt pretty pointless and unfulfilling, too. And even though I felt like I was trying hard, it didn't feel like I was making a difference. Probably worst of all at the time, I felt like I was failing my family as the servant leader that I knew I needed to be for them.

0:34:22 - (Toby Brooks): But in the book, I read about those five passions of authentic manhood. The adventurous spirit, the entrepreneurial drive, being gallant in relationships, faithful in character and philanthropic in cause. And honestly, at the time, I felt like I was a dumpster fire in pretty much all five areas. But I didn't stay there. Through what I'd later hear Neil called directional intent, I committed to daily study, to regular exercise, to time set aside, to focus on creative pursuits, to dedicated prayer time.

0:34:58 - (Toby Brooks): And guess what? I got better. I found purpose. And I connected to why I was probably where I was, how I was, with who I was. You know, I'd love to tell you, it's been easy street ever since that I found this secret sauce of wisdom, power, and living right. Truth is, I couldn't be further from the truth. During the lockdowns especially, I waded through some painful waters and broke down more than once.

0:35:26 - (Toby Brooks): But I had the love and support of people, family and friends alike, who helped me through. But what I discovered was this. If I could stay on course with those five pursuits, things usually went well. And when I neglected them, like clockwork, I'd nosedive. But through it all, I at least got the glimpse of the wisdom and insight of knowing that a life worth living needs to be purposeful in pursuits of growth, including all aspects of what makes us who we are, mental, physical, spiritual and social.

0:36:01 - (Toby Brooks): It was an awareness I would never have gained without Neil and his work.

0:36:07 - (Neil Kennedy): And so once I got that mandate, I knew this is it. And, of course, Toby, you know how this is. When you have life change, you have to give faith to follow. And so I had to sit down with my wife and say, we're starting again. And thank God that she's resilient. And we set on a path to encourage men. It's really been remarkable because it's not something I'm trying to get men to become. I'm just trying to expose who God made them to be.

0:36:39 - (Neil Kennedy): And it's already in them. This is the distinction with five star men. Five star men recognizes what's already within men. It's not them having to put something on to be. It's not a clothing. It's not a facade. It's drawing out from their heart what they really are without all of the perversions of toxicity that masculinity has in culture. What we want to do is dig in and find the authentic, original intent that God made a man to be.

0:37:17 - (Neil Kennedy): And here's what most men say. You have justified what I thought was ungodly. And that's a remarkable statement, because I've given scriptural support for the motivation to be adventurous, the motivation of conditioning, the motivation of taking care of ourselves physically in order to be a protector, the motivation of being a provider, being entrepreneurial and business minded, not greedy. But saying, God has given me a gift to supply finances so that I can have my needs met, so that I can grant the desires of my family, so that I can have the finances to fulfill my purpose, and so forth. Through all of the five purposes, what men thought was maybe something that other pastors or others have said, this is something you got to tamp down.

0:38:16 - (Neil Kennedy): What I'm saying is, no, you got to dig that out. Yeah, don't tamp it down. Dig deep.

0:38:21 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah.

0:38:22 - (Toby Brooks): And a couple of quotes of yours are favorites of mine. And one, and I'm loosely paraphrasing here, is you can't scatter what you didn't gather. I was raised in a way that, like rich people oftentimes they had it out for the poor folk, and that's not how that is. Like, increase is something that's hardwired within us. One other thing that you can accomplish more with a year of directional intent than a lifetime of wandering. And for me, that was so transformational.

0:38:50 - (Toby Brooks): The quote I oftentimes say, is strategic and purpose relentless and pursue better every day. So that directional intent is the strategic and purpose. I can't get to your house by just hopping in the car and picking any road. I have to plot the course, or in many cases, we're going to let the GPS do that. But that directional intent sets the path, and then all that's left after that is to just do it. If we've got that directional intent, then there is purpose driving our actions, and every day can be a step in the direction.

0:39:21 - (Neil Kennedy): Yeah, if you don't know where you're going, any road will do. But if you have a destination, the choices are few. Yeah, and I meant to make that rhyme, but I'm telling you, directional intent comes from purpose, and purpose comes from identity. So if you don't know who you are, you'll never know why you are. If you don't know why you are, you'll never know where you're going. And so all of that comes into play with a man.

0:39:46 - (Neil Kennedy): And men who have directional intent are powerful men. They're determined, they're strong, they're confident. You can tell when that man walks in the room, he's different than everyone else in the room. And that's the kind of man you want to be.

0:40:04 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah.

0:40:05 - (Toby Brooks): And I will say this, I encounter your teachings probably 1st 2015 ish and 2024 is a different time. I think if you launch this movement today, you encounter even more resistance than you did then. But I remember in that moment, as I'm reading this, and it's just resonating, it's just striking so many chords. Like you said, that's where that came from, realizing that we're hardwired with this, but the fact that it's men only and it's exclusionary, but it's not intended to hamper or harm or wound women in any way.

0:40:37 - (Toby Brooks): If all men could be five star men, what a wonderful world for women. Be for all of us, for that matter.

0:40:43 - (Neil Kennedy): Incredible.

0:40:44 - (Toby Brooks): But I remember thinking like, wow, I have to keep this to myself. I'm in a state school. If my female students find out that I'm doing this men's only ministry, I'm afraid their feelings will be hurt. It's somehow sexist. And I know you've encountered your share of resistance in that regard. What would you say has been the most effective way that you've countered that criticism?

0:41:10 - (Neil Kennedy): You know, when you're setting that up. As far as for me, I'm replaying some of those moments, and I remember being called into a conference room. A large denomination wanted to know about men's ministry and brought me in for that purpose. And what's amazing is, tell me. There were seven women and one man in the conference room of this massive denomination that talked to me about men's ministry. And I look over and my five star man book has tabs all over it.

0:41:51 - (Neil Kennedy): And those are markings of things that offended her, that she interpreted that was too masculine. And so we had this dialogue. This was the laying it all on the table. And so I said, did you read the book? And only one lady in the room read the book. And I said, okay, so why would I sit here and just try to argue with you if you haven't even taken the time to read the book? And so I looked at the young lady that did, and I said, you have earmarked what you obviously have questions about.

0:42:38 - (Neil Kennedy): And I said, are you interpreting something, anything that I've written as toxic? And she said, there's some things that are questionable. And I said, can you give me an example. And there was really no direct example from the book or from my teaching. It was what she perceived as a christian man, you know, that oppresses women or takes a religious approach or using scripture to oppress women, dominate women. That is an ungodly approach.

0:43:18 - (Neil Kennedy): So rather than just try to argue, I asked a question. I said, do you know Alexandra shower? And everyone in the room knew her, and they were. They just began to sing her praises. What a confident young lady she is a standout. She's this, she's that. And they're telling me everything about this young lady that I mentioned, as she is the model of femininity, godly woman and all that. I said, okay, she's my daughter.

0:43:56 - (Neil Kennedy): And they were stunned. And I said, the man that you fear, do you think could produce a daughter with that demeanor? There's no woman that could be treated better than the woman who is married to a man who is truly tapped into the five purposes that God made him to be, because God positioned us not to dominate, but to be servant leaders. And let me just go there, if you don't mind. It's not demeaning for Christ to be under the leadership of the Father.

0:44:38 - (Neil Kennedy): He's considered equal, but he is under the protocol of the father. Nor is it demeaning for me to be under the protocol of Christ if it's not demeaning for Christ to be under the father. And it's not demeaning for me to be under Christ. It's not demeaning for a woman to be under the husband. And when I say under, that's not in a position of domineering. It's in the position of the protocol of protection and authority that God has given us.

0:45:15 - (Neil Kennedy): That's the whole purpose of this. Those who use scripture to dominate others are using it in a manipulative, witchcraft fashion, and it's wrong and it's evil. And I teach against all of that. With all of that said, I'm telling you, one of the purposes of a man is to be gallant. So I'm going to treat women that are older than me as my mother. I'm going to treat women that are younger than me as my own daughter, and I'm going to treat women that are peers, as a sister, and the only woman who receives the intimacy of my eyes, the passion, is my wife.

0:45:53 - (Neil Kennedy): And if that is offensive to this culture, then I don't know how to help you.

0:46:00 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah.

0:46:01 - (Toby Brooks): As you're talking, I'm thinking about how your childhood and your upbringing have shaped your message and your ministry. And I also recognize that in 2024, our culture has shaped how a message like this would be interpreted. And sadly, the history is there's been horrible acts of racism, horrible acts of sexism, horrible acts of power abuses that have led to people suffering under poor leaders. And so when a message like this comes out without really examining it, it's pretty logical for an unbelieving world, or even a believing world, for that matter, to just assume that this is just one more chapter in a long history of abuse and biblically allowed or poorly substantiated, but still tying it to scripture to say that it's okay for a man to behave in this way, and this is not that. I want to be clear that if I can follow the teachings that are woven throughout five star man, I'll be the best husband. And if I can do that, I'll be all right.

0:47:10 - (Toby Brooks): My wife, she's told me more than once, she said, you're in charge, but don't screw it up. Like, she recognizes that I'm the head of my household, but she also charges me with the mandate to carry that with care and to seek out what's best for our family. And she's willing to yield to that authority. But she also, she's an oldest, she's a preacher's kid. She's got all the things that give her leadership skills. And so if she sees a poor leader in action, she can sniff that out in a hurry.

0:47:41 - (Toby Brooks): So, for me, your teaching was at the right time. It was revolutionary for me in many respects. Like you said, it gave some wisdom and license and power behind things that I felt in my heart. And something like this is not planning a church where you've got a community of people that you see on a regular basis who are seeding into your ministry. This is, in many ways, a virtual thing, and you're even early on, maybe dvd's and early streaming, this is a different thing. And so that growth had to occur pretty slowly.

0:48:14 - (Toby Brooks): Talk me through those first few years of five star man and maybe some of the disappointments and how you powered through to become an overnight success 15 years in the making.

0:48:26 - (Neil Kennedy): Yeah. The real challenge is, how do you monetize, that's just the practicalities. How do you monetize this? How do you take care of that? And so I began, early on, I was an early adopter of the potential of what we have available to us. And so we began to build a platform, so to speak. And I knew that the platform of using Internet connection and so forth would be what it is. And so I was an early adopter to that, that, you know, habakkuk tutu, write the message plainly on tablets. And so every man has a tablet.

0:49:12 - (Neil Kennedy): And so I thought every man that I need to talk to and share a message of hope and encouragement with it has a tablet. So let's just make that available. But how do you monetize that? And so we tried it various different ways and selling the curriculum. And the problem with that is at that point, you're already preaching to the choir. If somebody's willing to pay for your message, they're already in.

0:49:40 - (Neil Kennedy): And I'm wanting to reach men who need the life transformation that I had. I'm wanting to reach men who really don't. They don't want to pay for the kind of things that we're providing. And so that began a transition of saying, okay, we're just going to offer up front things free, just completely free. And then on the back end, in our community, there's going to be the exclusivity that you talk about. We have curriculum, we have training, we have books, we have now. We just launched the Circle champions community, which is a closed community.

0:50:24 - (Neil Kennedy): And I've never been more excited about anything than that. And what I'm seeing there is just absolutely astounding. It's wonderful. And with all of that, now, that community is partnering with Fivestrayman.com in order for us on the front end to be completely whosoever. So, you know, every man can get a free copy of my book, five star man. Every man can get a daily word of encouragement. The daily champion.

0:50:57 - (Neil Kennedy): We just launched the 45 day challenge, and we already have hundreds of men and soon thousands of men that will be taking the 45 day challenge. And it really is the most exciting thing we've ever done. You've seen my growth from the early stage, stumbling through what I thought. I'm just, I don't know how we're going to make it. I don't know how we're going to do this. But we're now at a place where we are seeing more men have this life change in this anti man culture that we're living in.

0:51:34 - (Neil Kennedy): It is the most exciting time for. It's everything I've dreamed about in life. Toby, I honestly believe this. A lot of guys my age are coming in for a landing, and they just, they want to wrap things up. I remember in my first church plant, it was on a Tuesday, and I took three of my staff members out to play golf. And the guys in front of us were old retired guys. The guys behind us was old retired guys, and we're waiting on so that we can tee off.

0:52:11 - (Neil Kennedy): And that was the moment, Toby, that I said, is this it? Is this really what I'm going to work my whole life to do? I'm already doing this at 33 years of age. Am I working the next 30 years to retire and come out here on Tuesday? And that was a momentous. I can clearly know that moment, that it changed everything.

0:52:45 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah.

0:52:46 - (Neil Kennedy): And that's when I said, this is not enough. I call it holy frustration. And it moved me to embrace change in my life. I don't know why I got off on that, but I think it may be important for somebody to hear, you've got to stay motivated. And so now I'm at 62, and I've just now reached the place that I really believe my purpose in life is being fulfilled.

0:53:11 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah.

0:53:11 - (Neil Kennedy): So I'm excited about the next 15 years, and so I'm doing everything I can to condition my body to fulfill my purpose.

0:53:20 - (Toby Brooks): Absolutely. Something you said that sparked a reminder in me. I remember coming across book and website and the videos, and they were so well done. And to hear you say, oh, we did our best and we cobbled things. You're just figuring it out, right? And I look back at some of my early episodes, and they were the best I could possibly do at the time. And I listen to them now and I'm just like, wow, that was horrible.

0:53:43 - (Toby Brooks): But it was the best I could do. If I waited for perfection, I would never get out of the gate. I would never leave the cave. To use one of your analogies. And so what would you say to someone who's maybe gripped by that fear of failure and letting perfectionism prevent them from birthing or producing what they feel was planted in their heart?

0:54:08 - (Neil Kennedy): Wow, another great question. I honestly believe it may go back to that desire of. It really is, I don't fear failure because I am going to stumble over words. I had a speech with Hedemon as a child. I still have to work very hard to make sure that I pronounce words. And I didn't speak until I was three or four years of age. I mean, it was. It's so funny because that's the opposite of what you would think now that I make a living speaking to people.

0:54:43 - (Neil Kennedy): And then I flunk grammar. I had a poor, horrible education, and I've written 14 books. And all of this stuff that we do, the motivation is like, yesterday I get a message on our five star man page on Facebook from a lady talking about how the Centurion principle, who's written for men, changed her life. And I thought, how cool is that, that you can do something and the critics can say whatever they want to, but I don't care.

0:55:28 - (Neil Kennedy): What matters is that one person, and those are the things that motivate you beyond the fear. Who cares if you fail? My goodness. It doesn't matter. You're only really a failure if you quit. And there's a lot of people who had this notion that perfection is the requirement. It's not excellence. We want to do things right. We want to do things better. You and I will get down the road and we'll look back at our small beginnings and laugh. But thank God we've gotten this far.

0:56:01 - (Neil Kennedy): And we're not where we were, but we're not where we're going to be, but we're going to do our very best today.

0:56:08 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah.

0:56:08 - (Toby Brooks): I want to be respectful of your time, but I definitely want to shift the focus and talk a little bit more about the challenge. And another thing I've seen within you since first encountering your work was a physical transformation that took place in your life. And for me, it was a verse that I encountered a long time ago. I was taught this by some coaches, but we used to give the Luke 252 award at liberty to the football player who best displayed growth in wisdom, stature, favor with God and man. Physical, mental, spiritual, social.

0:56:40 - (Toby Brooks): It's this idea of whole person development. And your teaching was the five purposes. But the physical side of this was something that you and your family, for that matter, made a shift in. So talk me through maybe your physical transformation and some of the spiritual implications that you've seen in that.

0:56:59 - (Neil Kennedy): I appreciate that. I think everyone are challenged in our physical ability and conditioning and so forth. The choosing of diet, the choosing of exercise and things of that nature. And I, you know, the very things I love the most are the worst things for me. And at some point, you just got to make a decision. Are you going to just go with the flow and die early, or are you going to condition yourself to fulfill your race?

0:57:24 - (Neil Kennedy): What happened was I had three friends die within two months, and it was all because of obesity. And technically, I would have been probably on the chart of obesity, but I was never morbidly obese, but I was just stout, as you would say. And. And I just realized that this is a problem because these guys died before their purpose was fulfilled. They were all pastoring mega churches and doing extremely great things for God, but they couldn't defeat the stomach.

0:58:00 - (Neil Kennedy): And so I was up in the middle of night one night praying, and the Holy Spirit said, this is your warning. You're going to die early if you don't make this change. And so I just got serious about making the right choices and starting to condition myself for my purpose. And I remember, man, I'm going to get vulnerable here. I remember after I made that change and I had dropped weight and gotten healthy, I remember one day having lunch with my wife, and my wife just cried, and she just revealed the fear that she had of being a young widow.

0:58:44 - (Neil Kennedy): And, man, it broke. I mean, that wrenches your heart. Her father died young because of some habits that he had. And, you know, she said, I just didn't want to be my mom. I didn't want to be a young widow.

0:58:58 - (Toby Brooks): I think the quote actually comes from one of your dad's works. I'm not mistaken. If I'd known I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself. I think we can all relate to that. So I want to wrap us up here. I've got two questions left. One's fairly quick and simple, and then the one I always end with. If we were to watch a montage of your life, what song would you pick to play in the background and why?

0:59:23 - (Neil Kennedy): My first thought was hotel California.

0:59:27 - (Toby Brooks): Welcome to the Hotel California.

0:59:38 - (Neil Kennedy): Because that was. That was just a favorite when I had it. But there's, there's what a great question. I honestly, I'm think also thinking about the measure of a man before him.

0:59:57 - (Toby Brooks): Oh, I see. The measure of a man is not how tall you stand, how wealthy or.

1:00:06 - (Neil Kennedy): Intelligent you are for him. Came out of my first church and told that I was on their board and got to see them grow. You remember that group for him?

1:00:17 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah. Yeah.

1:00:18 - (Neil Kennedy): And so the measure of a man. I remember when they wrote that, and that's always been a kind of a motivator for me. But that was later, the early days, it probably would have been. There's a lot more to the hotel California lyrics and what I interpret them than I think the way that they were written.

1:00:42 - (Toby Brooks): I'll share a quick story. This is your interview, not mine. I was three or four years old. My dad was a truck driver at.

1:00:49 - (Toby Brooks): The time in long haul, and he.

1:00:51 - (Toby Brooks): Would take me, and I was this precocious little punk, and I would point out, like, the freightliners and the Peterbilt, like, I can't imagine how annoying that would be. But I distinctly remember him playing the Eagles eight track with Hotel California. Like, that's probably one of my favorite memories of my dad, is rolling down the highway in his Peterbilt truck, uh, with. With the hotel California blaring in the background.

1:01:16 - (Toby Brooks): I didn't have any idea what any of the worst, but I just knew that was cool time to have with dad.

1:01:23 - (Neil Kennedy): That's a cool memory that the Eagles were. No doubt that would have been the soundtrack of my life. It would have been the Eagles and Fleetwood Mac.

1:01:32 - (Toby Brooks): As a drummer, I'm also blown away by the fact that he could sing lead and play drums at the same time, which. Just the ability to speak a word, it's impossible. So that's impressive as well. Last question, and I know you. You've got lots going on. What for Neil Kennedy is left undone?

1:01:53 - (Neil Kennedy): Well, I'll continue to write books. That's a mandate. I am most fulfilled in writing a book. I love crafting a sentence. I'm not trying to be an author. It's weird. I'm just trying to be a communicator. So I love writing books, and so I'll continue to that. My father, who I got to know later in life, he wrote 19 western novels, and so I own his intellectual property. And so with his 19 and what I'm going to produce, we're going to have a nice little publishing company. So, yeah, I'm going to just continue to speak to men.

1:02:33 - (Neil Kennedy): We have just now gotten to the place with five star men to actually see what I envisioned for it to be when I started it. And we just now have the tools in place. We just now have, I guess, the credibility, the content, and all that we need. I don't need a network to make five star man six sit in the successful. In other words, I don't have to rely on someone else. I don't have to rely on some open door or anything. We've built.

1:03:06 - (Neil Kennedy): We built now a network to where we can actually accomplish what God wants us to do without anyone else's grafting off anyone else, and that's a huge deal. Most people require some type of infrastructure someone else's built in order for them to succeed. When you really succeed is when you built the network yourself and you have your own infrastructure. That's where you can have the exponential growth that I think that we're at the place, and we're really stealth.

1:03:44 - (Neil Kennedy): No one, I don't think anybody really knows that we exist. And yet, every morning when I'm drinking coffee, there are tens of thousands of mendenna that are being encouraged by our efforts.

1:03:58 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah.

1:03:59 - (Toby Brooks): I want to applaud you. Thank you for all your work. You've assembled the team and you've been instrumental in changing countless lives. And I'm one of them.

1:04:10 - (Toby Brooks): And I can't thank you enough for.

1:04:11 - (Toby Brooks): The role that you've played in my life. It's been awesome. I still got a long way to go, but I'm thankful for the fact.

1:04:20 - (Toby Brooks): That our paths have crossed.

1:04:22 - (Neil Kennedy): You're a one percenter, Toby. I'm telling you, you are a one percenter. You have achieved great things in your life and what's amazing is you're only just getting started. And so I celebrate when I see all that's happening in your life. I celebrate you. And anything that I can do to serve you, I will do it.

1:04:43 - (Toby Brooks): That's awesome. I will drop all the links to your socials, fivestarman.com and all the many ways that folks can follow and be inspired. You certainly have a way with words. A lot of your quotes are memeable and they just pop into my head. Leave the cave, go out and kill something today. Those types of ways with the word are powerful and I'm thankful for you.

1:05:05 - (Neil Kennedy): I'm Neil Kennedy and I am undone.

1:05:09 - (Toby Brooks): I'm thankful to Neil for dropping in and I hope you enjoyed our conversation. For more info on today's episode, be sure to check it out on the web. Simply go to undonepodcast.com ep 90 to see the notes, links and images related to today's guest, Neal Kennedy. I know there are great stories out there to be told and I'm always on the lookout. So if you or someone you know has a story that we can all be inspired by, tell me about it.

1:05:35 - (Toby Brooks): Surf on over to undonepodcast.com comma. Click the contact tab in the top menu and drop me a note. Coming up on the show as promised, I've started working on a multi part documentary about the life lessons and legacy of former Arizona football head coach Dick Tomey, starting with a great conversation I just had yesterday with author and Hawaii ESPN correspondent Lance Tomonaga. I've also started a multi episode mini doc on former Charlotte Hornet and New York Knick Larry Johnson.

1:06:06 - (Toby Brooks): On top of that, I start my first day on my new job at Baylor on Monday, so know that I'm working hard to keep bringing you more insights, inspiration, and hopefully a smile or two on becoming undone. Becoming undone is a nitro hype creative production written and produced by me, Toby Brooks. Tell a friend about the show. Follow along on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn at becoming undone Pod and follow mejbrooks on X Instagram, TikTok and Facebook.

1:06:33 - (Toby Brooks): Check out my link tree at Linktr ee tobyjbrooks. Listen, subscribe and leave me a review at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts. I'll see you again next Thursday from Waco. Until then, keep getting better.