EP96: THE MAKING (and re-making) of LARRY JOHNSON Part 5: Reliving UNLV's Glory Days with Equipment Manager Larry Chin

About the Guest:

Larry Chin is the long-serving Assistant Equipment Manager at the University of Nevada Las Vegas (UNLV) athletics department, working with the institution for over four decades. Starting as a student manager in 1974, Chin became a pivotal part of the equipment staff, overseeing several prominent sports, including the legendary men's basketball program under Coach Jerry Tarkanian. His career encompasses managing equipment for numerous high-profile games, including UNLV's celebrated 1990 NCAA Championship win. Larry’s enduring commitment to the Rebels' program makes him a cornerstone of UNLV athletics history.

Episode Summary:

In the latest episode of "Becoming UnDone," host Toby Brooks takes listeners back to 1989 with a captivatingly personal tale about high school trials and the social obsession with popularity and athletic prowess, all while pivoting to the poignant and historical journey of NBA and NCAA legend Larry Johnson. This episode, part five in the series titled The Making and Remaking of Larry Johnson, features an in-depth conversation with Larry Chin, University of Nevada Las Vegas's longtime Assistant Equipment Manager, shedding light on the inner workings of one of college basketball's most legendary programs.

Toby Brooks and Larry Chin explore the transformative years of UNLV's storied basketball program. Key topics revolve around Larry Johnson's pivotal role on the team and the intricate dynamics within college athletics, particularly during the Rebels' prominent 1989–1990 seasons. They delve into the personal and team ethics that contributed to UNLV's cohesion and success, as well as the broader implications of NCAA regulations over time. With fascinating anecdotes about team synergy and the essential but often underappreciated role of support staff, this episode promises enlightening insights into the making of a champion team and the professionals who helped drive their success.

Key Takeaways:

• High School Memories and Aspirations: Toby Brooks shares a vivid memory from 1989, providing a nostalgic and relatable backdrop before diving into the main focus on Larry Johnson.
• Larry Chin’s Role at UNLV: Larry Chin recounts his unexpected journey from high school equipment manager to a pivotal role in UNLV's athletics department, underscoring the often overlooked contribution of support staff.
• UNLV Basketball’s Evolution: Insightful discussion on the impact of Larry Johnson's arrival at UNLV and the transformation he brought to the team’s dynamics and performance.
• Team Dynamics and Ethics: Stories that illustrate the strong ethics and disciplined approach of the 1989-1990 UNLV team, crushing stereotypes and emphasizing their businesslike approach to the game.
• Changing Landscape of College Athletics: Examination of the changes in NCAA regulations over the decades, including the introduction of NIL (Name, Image, and Likeness) and its implications for college sports.

Notable Quotes:

1. Larry Chin: "He [Larry Johnson] came in, he said, I want to fit in. I want to help you guys. I want to win a championship with you guys. You know, tell me what you need and I'll do it."
2. Larry Chin: "We're

Transcript

0:00:03 - : This is becoming undone.

0:00:08 - (Toby Brooks): Before we get too deep. As always in these docu series shows, a simple request. Stay with me. I promise this episode really is about.

0:00:17 - (Toby Brooks): Larry Johnson eventually, and it might take me a minute to get there, but.

0:00:22 - (Toby Brooks): I will, I swear. So stick around. It was 1980.

0:00:27 - (Toby Brooks): 919 89. Not like Taylor Swift album 1989.

0:00:36 - (Toby Brooks): Actual 1989.

0:00:38 - (Toby Brooks): Now I wouldn't swear to the accuracy of anything I'm about to tell you. Some combination of the Mandela effect, old age, and some likely unintentional revisionist history.

0:00:49 - (Toby Brooks): Are all potentially in play here. But anyway, I think it makes for a heck of a story.

0:00:55 - (Toby Brooks): So 1989 or maybe 1988.

0:01:00 - (Toby Brooks): Probably 1989. Who cares? Close enough.

0:01:04 - (Toby Brooks): Anyhow, in my memory I am a goofy, awkward, shy high school freshman. That much is easily verifiable. I go to a tiny school and I'm a tall guy, but I'm by no means tough, good looking or otherwise attractive to the opposite sex.

0:01:20 - (Toby Brooks): Attracted to the opposite sex.

0:01:23 - (Toby Brooks): Oh, without a doubt. I dont have a girlfriend, but I want one pretty badly.

0:01:29 - (Toby Brooks): The problem is, as a fairly poor kid with no license, no car, no job, I have zero to offer and theres no chance im overcoming those flaws with charm or good looks. Its just a pretty hopeless situation.

0:01:43 - (Toby Brooks): So I do what all the other goofy freshman guys do.

0:01:46 - (Toby Brooks): I try not to gawk or be creepy in my absolute need to look.

0:01:50 - (Toby Brooks): At every pretty girl in my school.

0:01:53 - (Toby Brooks): You ever wish you could go back.

0:01:54 - (Toby Brooks): In time and just see yourself honing your social skills?

0:01:59 - (Toby Brooks): I'm absolutely certain that it would be.

0:02:01 - (Toby Brooks): Physically painful for me to see myself trying to convince any girl, especially older and popular girls, just to have a conversation with me. So we freshmen all tried to lay.

0:02:12 - (Toby Brooks): Low, try out some attempts at smooth.

0:02:14 - (Toby Brooks): Conversation, and not draw obvious attention to ourselves.

0:02:20 - (Toby Brooks): Meanwhile, the older guys had it made.

0:02:23 - (Toby Brooks): They had their licenses, maybe a part time job with some money, a car.

0:02:27 - (Toby Brooks): How on earth was I possibly going to compete with that resume in attracting.

0:02:32 - (Toby Brooks): The attention of an available fair maiden? Simply put, I couldn't.

0:02:38 - (Toby Brooks): I had heard rumors that one of.

0:02:39 - (Toby Brooks): The older guys on the basketball team.

0:02:41 - (Toby Brooks): Was embroiled in the middle of a love triangle of sorts. Hed been in a long term relationship.

0:02:46 - (Toby Brooks): At least by high school standards, with.

0:02:48 - (Toby Brooks): One of the prettiest and most popular girls at our school. But the tea was that hed been messing around with certifiably the hottest girl at the school on the low. Like beauty pageant hot. Reigning Pope County Deer Festival queen hot.

0:03:03 - (Toby Brooks): I wish I were making the part up. So the rumors are flying.

0:03:09 - (Toby Brooks): Dude is keeping quiet, but the girls.

0:03:11 - (Toby Brooks): Are getting more and more heated, never.

0:03:13 - (Toby Brooks): Actually talking to one another directly, I might add.

0:03:17 - (Toby Brooks): But they spend like a whole week.

0:03:18 - (Toby Brooks): Going back and forth in third party.

0:03:20 - (Toby Brooks): Back channels about how the dude is theirs and they're going to mess the other one up in 2024.

0:03:27 - (Toby Brooks): We'd say the whole situation was giving.

0:03:29 - (Toby Brooks): Brandi and Monica duet.

0:03:33 - (D): Excuse me, can I please talk to you for a minute? You know, you look kind of familiar. Yeah, you do, too. But, um, I just wanted to know, do you know somebody?

0:03:41 - (Larry Chin): Name?

0:03:43 - (D): You know his name?

0:03:48 - (Toby Brooks): So in a scenario my freshman friends.

0:03:50 - (Toby Brooks): And I can only dream of, this.

0:03:53 - (Toby Brooks): Dude literally has two of the hottest girls in the whole school preparing to fight over him. He keeps playing it cool and doesn't.

0:04:01 - (Toby Brooks): Say a word, but tensions are mounting.

0:04:04 - (Toby Brooks): Factions are forming. There's talk of an actual fight between the two involved parties sometime after school.

0:04:11 - (Toby Brooks): But we're all pretty sure it's just rumors. When you're a freshman in high school, you're in the midst of some stuff, especially guys.

0:04:20 - (Toby Brooks): 9Th grade girls were like the fresh new hits of the season that the.

0:04:23 - (Toby Brooks): Older guys got to swoon over and impressed. Meanwhile, not one older girl would so.

0:04:29 - (Toby Brooks): Much as look in the direction of.

0:04:30 - (Toby Brooks): A freshman guy for fear of the.

0:04:32 - (Toby Brooks): Social leprosy that would most certainly result.

0:04:35 - (Toby Brooks): To say the least.

0:04:37 - (Toby Brooks): We were a pathetic lot, each hungry.

0:04:39 - (Toby Brooks): For love with little to no opportunities for it.

0:04:43 - (Toby Brooks): And in the midst of that, the school itself starts throwing new things at.

0:04:47 - (Toby Brooks): You that you didn't really have in junior high, like selecting your schedule, finding your classrooms and pep rallies.

0:04:55 - (Toby Brooks): Now, my school didn't and still doesn't have a football team. We were too small and too broke.

0:05:01 - (Toby Brooks): For anything like that.

0:05:02 - (Toby Brooks): So basketball was the sport of choice.

0:05:05 - (Toby Brooks): And with the season not starting until midway through the fall semester, we had.

0:05:09 - (Toby Brooks): No need for a pep rally until, let's say, October ish. So the whole herd of us freshman.

0:05:15 - (Toby Brooks): Boys, what with our braces and acne and surging testosterone making the whole situation that much more dire, found ourselves being.

0:05:24 - (Toby Brooks): Herded toward the gym for our first ever pep rally, whatever the hell that was.

0:05:30 - (Toby Brooks): As we're filing in, my best friend.

0:05:32 - (Toby Brooks): And I exchanged our bewilderment. One of us, I don't remember who, simply asked, what even is a pep rally? We shrugged.

0:05:42 - (Toby Brooks): Our tiny gym had like four rows.

0:05:44 - (Toby Brooks): Of foldable bleachers on one side of.

0:05:46 - (Toby Brooks): The court that were pulled out of as we entered.

0:05:48 - (Toby Brooks): Our class sponsor teachers instructed us to file in and fill the first quarter or so of the stands. Since we mattered least, we were escorted to the gym first, then the sophomores, then the juniors, then the seniors who.

0:06:02 - (Toby Brooks): Filed in like they were getting out.

0:06:03 - (Toby Brooks): Of their stretched limos and walking the.

0:06:05 - (Toby Brooks): Red carpet at the Grammys or something. So here we are, standing in the bleachers, waiting.

0:06:11 - (Toby Brooks): Waiting for a pep rally, whatever the hell that was. I can honestly say I did not.

0:06:17 - (Toby Brooks): Know what it was, but I was happy to get the ditch 7th period.

0:06:22 - (Toby Brooks): So the sophomores come in, and the juniors.

0:06:24 - (Toby Brooks): You get the picture.

0:06:26 - (Toby Brooks): But with us as freshmen in the.

0:06:27 - (Toby Brooks): Near corner of the stands, we got.

0:06:29 - (Toby Brooks): To watch every single student make their way to their place in the bleachers.

0:06:33 - (Toby Brooks): Cheerleaders were cheering, music was blaring, and.

0:06:37 - (Toby Brooks): I very well may have these details.

0:06:39 - (Toby Brooks): All wrong, but here goes anyway.

0:06:42 - (Toby Brooks): The longtime girlfriend of the previously mentioned love triangle had made her way to the top row in her non freshman class section.

0:06:51 - (Toby Brooks): She was perched there, steely eyes, clenched fist, and a bone chilling rbf the.

0:06:57 - (Toby Brooks): Likes of which I'd never seen.

0:07:00 - (Toby Brooks): Not long after, her rival, the beauty.

0:07:02 - (Toby Brooks): Queen, entered the gym and walked right in front of the freshman class, looking.

0:07:08 - (Toby Brooks): As pristine as ever. Huge, teased hair, skin tight, probably jordash jeans with the cuffs pegged, and a.

0:07:17 - (Toby Brooks): Baggy sweater that swayed over some kind.

0:07:19 - (Toby Brooks): Of skin tight white under layer camisole or something. She was as breathtaking a vision of.

0:07:26 - (Toby Brooks): Beauty as my 14 year old eyes.

0:07:28 - (Toby Brooks): Had seen, with the exception of maybe a white snake video I once saw when I got to spend the night.

0:07:33 - (Toby Brooks): With my one friend who had MTV.

0:07:35 - (Toby Brooks): But anyway, she strode past looking pretty business like herself now in Battle of.

0:07:42 - (Toby Brooks): Lexington and Concord fashion.

0:07:44 - (Toby Brooks): I couldn't tell you who fired first. I don't know if the pointing and.

0:07:48 - (Toby Brooks): The insults came from above or below.

0:07:51 - (Toby Brooks): All I do know is that my gawky, early puberty self stood mouth wide open as the girl on the top row leapt from her position and dove straight at the girl on the floor. They quickly grabbed at the sticky, sky high bangs of one another and started a profanity spewing scrum of aquanet and tight jeans and slouchy late eighties sweaters.

0:08:14 - (Toby Brooks): My eyes grew bigger and bigger as one of them pulled the sweater up.

0:08:18 - (Toby Brooks): Over the head of her opponent in a hockey style covered wagon kind of move that resulted in my first ever.

0:08:24 - (Toby Brooks): Live view of a girl in a bra.

0:08:27 - (Toby Brooks): They continued their tussle as a couple of nearby teachers sprang into action, broke it up, and escorted them out of the gym to our wild applause. I glanced at my older teammate, proudly perched in his class section on the top row. The dude they were fighting over.

0:08:43 - (Toby Brooks): He was grinning from ear to ear.

0:08:46 - (Toby Brooks): In what time has most assuredly proven.

0:08:49 - (Toby Brooks): To be the apex moment of his life. Eyes still wide and jaw still dropped, I then nudged my best friend, who was standing next to me in the freshman bleachers.

0:08:58 - (Toby Brooks): We looked at one another, one of us, I don't even remember who, simply.

0:09:03 - (Toby Brooks): Said these words, pep Rally's are awesome.

0:09:10 - (Toby Brooks): So that's what I was doing in 1989.

0:09:13 - (Toby Brooks): Meanwhile, in Las Vegas, Nevada, young Larry.

0:09:16 - (Toby Brooks): Chin was gearing up to be the equipment manager for one of the most.

0:09:21 - (Toby Brooks): Talented college basketball teams ever assembled, a team that had gone an impressive 29 eight, winning the Big West Conference title and finishing ranked 15th in the final AP Pole the season before coming in.

0:09:34 - (Toby Brooks): As a four seed in the west regional.

0:09:36 - (Toby Brooks): The running Rebels narrowly escaped southwest Missouri State 54 to 50 in the first round before falling to Iowa 104 to 86 in the round of 32. They were close, but they were missing something. Larry Johnson.

0:10:13 - (Toby Brooks): Welcome back to another episode.

0:10:15 - (Toby Brooks): Of Becoming Undone, where high achievers turn setbacks into comebacks each week. Join me, Toby Brooks, as I guide you through the art of transforming unfinished goals into unstoppable growth, one inspiring story.

0:10:28 - (Toby Brooks): At a time this week we continue our inspiring story of NBA and NCAA legend Larry Johnson with part five of our docuseries.

0:10:37 - (Toby Brooks): The making and remaking of Larry Johnson.

0:10:39 - (Toby Brooks): In part one, we checked in with.

0:10:41 - (Toby Brooks): Former Charlotte Hornets VP of public relations Harold Kaufman, who shared his stories of the cultural phenomenon that was Larry Johnson in Charlotte beginning in 1991. In part two, we heard from Larry's high school coach, former Dallas Skyline head coach JD Mayo, who shed some light on LJ's upbringing in the Dixon Circle housing projects of south Dallas and his illustrious high school career. We followed that up with a bit of a detour in part three, where I talked about the social impacts of.

0:11:08 - (Toby Brooks): Black superstar athletes like Larry and Allen.

0:11:11 - (Toby Brooks): Iverson with my good friend doctor Kwame M. Brown. Then in part four, we heard from Larrys First College coach, Odessa colleges Dennis Helms. If you havent tuned into those yet.

0:11:22 - (Toby Brooks): You might want to go back and check them out. But this week we have one of.

0:11:26 - (Toby Brooks): The longest tenured staff members in all of division one college athletics and for sure at the University of Nevada Las Vegas, assistant equipment manager Larry Chinook.

0:11:41 - (Toby Brooks): Joining me today is University of Nevada.

0:11:43 - (Toby Brooks): Las Vegas assistant equipment manager Larry Chin.

0:11:46 - (Toby Brooks): Larry's been a full time member of the UNLV athletics equipment staff for more.

0:11:49 - (Toby Brooks): Than 40 years and today he oversees 14 of the university's 17 intercollegiate sports.

0:11:55 - (Toby Brooks): Larry, thanks so much for joining me today.

0:11:58 - (Larry Chin): Glad to be here.

0:11:59 - (Toby Brooks): So I've been deep diving on Larry's history. And I've spoken with his high school coach, his junior college coach, and that.

0:12:10 - (Toby Brooks): Leads me to his time at UNLV.

0:12:12 - (Toby Brooks): And as we know, legendary coach Jerry Tarkanian is no longer with us. So in my research, I found an old team photo and discovered a young guy in the picture and then tried to cross list that with the directory at UNLV.

0:12:27 - (Toby Brooks): So you've been a running rebel for.

0:12:29 - (Toby Brooks): A very long time. So let's start with you. How'd you end up at UNLV?

0:12:33 - (Toby Brooks): And when did you know that a.

0:12:34 - (Toby Brooks): Career in athletics was the move for you?

0:12:37 - (Larry Chin): Well, first off, I was like quite a few young people coming out of high school. I wasn't really quite sure what I was going to do. I had decent grades. I wasn't sure if I was going to go to college or I was going to go straight into work. And in high school, I was a student manager for the football team at Western High School in Las Vegas. And in those days, the high school all star football game was held in August of all things.

0:13:09 - (Larry Chin): Not at the end. Yeah, not at the end of the football season, but actually at the end of summer, which means these kids were in the all star game, were getting ready to go to college. So of course that has changed since then. But my football coach was one of the assistant coaches there and he called me up and he asked for what I was doing and I said nothing. At the moment. He goes, well, why don't you volunteer your time and come down and help us out with the all star game?

0:13:34 - (Larry Chin): I said, sure. So I went down there and I can't even remember which field it was on, but I walked on. And not more than ten minutes after I walked onto the field, who was the trainer for UNLV at that time? They had just hired a full time equipment manager and he needed student managers that he told the trainer that when you go to this all star practice, see if you can find me some student managers. So this trainer will ask me, hey, do you know anybody who would like to be a student manager for football at UNLV and, and get help getting paid going through college?

0:14:15 - (Larry Chin): Which of course I said, I think you found the right guy, you know? So that was my ticket to college. And so I was a student manager. Now, strangely enough, the five years I was in college, there was never, I repeat, never a time that I ever thought, hey, this is what I want to do to live in my life. I never thought that I actually thought I was going to be at a casino executive living in Las Vegas.

0:14:44 - (Larry Chin): And when I left college, I did go to the casino business for 88 days and did not have a good time with it. Just was not happy. It wasn't me. And at that time, which would have been near the end of the football season, the head equipment manager retired, and we're talking in the middle of the school year. So the athletic department called me up and said, hey, since we have a situation here, the old man, as they called him, decided to retire. And we need somebody, like yesterday, and you're the only guy we know who knows where everything is.

0:15:20 - (Larry Chin): So they said, we'll give you an interim job, but we'll guarantee that when July comes and the position is open again, your name will be at the top of the list. And that's how I really got started.

0:15:36 - (Toby Brooks): Now, I didn't plan it like this. Like, I don't think I could have, but this is kind of blowing my mind right now. Not gonna lie.

0:15:44 - (Toby Brooks): In part four of the series, I talked about the pony Express teams of.

0:15:48 - (Toby Brooks): SMU in the mid 1970s and early.

0:15:50 - (Toby Brooks): 1980S that were led by head coach Ron Meyer. Meyer was an up and coming coach.

0:15:56 - (Toby Brooks): Who started at SMU in 1975 before.

0:15:59 - (Toby Brooks): Taking over as head coach for the New England Patriots in 1981.

0:16:03 - (Toby Brooks): As rumors began to swirl about Myers and SMUs shady recruiting practices, the school ended up in the NCAA's crosshairs. Finally, in 1987, SMU was sentenced to the NCAA's death penalty.

0:16:17 - (Toby Brooks): One of the likely many repercussions of.

0:16:19 - (Toby Brooks): That turmoil at SMU was that heavily.

0:16:21 - (Toby Brooks): Touted high school player of the year. Larry Johnson's academic record was called into.

0:16:25 - (Toby Brooks): Question, and ultimately he was denied admission to the school. He opted to go to Odessa College.

0:16:31 - (Toby Brooks): Instead, and the rest, as they say, is history. But before all that, in the sweltering desert of Las Vegas, Nevada, a young.

0:16:39 - (Toby Brooks): Larry Chin is in high school, and at all of five foot six and 155 pounds. As a junior, he realizes he's too.

0:16:46 - (Toby Brooks): Small to continue playing football, so he becomes an equipment manager. After graduation, he's given an opportunity to work with UNLV's original head equipment manager, Floyd Browning, to help offset the cost of school. In 1974, he begins working as a student manager with the run and Rebels football team headed up by Ron Meyer, the same Ron Meyer who would head to SMU just a year later and.

0:17:10 - (Toby Brooks): Recruit Craig James shortly thereafter. Villain, I say.

0:17:17 - (Toby Brooks): Although Larry hadn't pictured himself in a.

0:17:19 - (Toby Brooks): Career in athletics after graduation, he'd discovered.

0:17:22 - (Toby Brooks): That working in the hotel and casino industry hadn't been all he'd imagined it to be.

0:17:27 - (Toby Brooks): As it turns out, that 88 day stint was still life changing, though, because that's where he met his wife of.

0:17:33 - (Toby Brooks): Now more than 30 years, Ani. But then he promptly returned back to the equipment room. When his old mentor decided to retire.

0:17:41 - (Toby Brooks): After the football season, he came back.

0:17:43 - (Toby Brooks): To help out, and he's been there ever since.

0:17:48 - (Toby Brooks): Wow, that's great. Lots of times, athletics kind of gets into your blood, and it's hard to shake it. I have kind of a similar story and worked in athletic support as an athletic trainer for several years in the collegiate rank. So I totally understand how. How sometimes it's. It's almost like an abusive relationship. The hours are long, the pay is not the best, but there's just something about serving in that capacity that just kind of gets into your system.

0:18:15 - (Larry Chin): Oh, yeah, the hours are ridiculous. They're outrageous. And I always say this, and if I get a chance to say it, I always say it. That is, the mvp in my life is my wife for putting up with me all these decades, being away, going on a road. I mean, you name it, I was never home for about 25 years, and yet she put up with me.

0:18:36 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah, that's definitely a key part to success. So much has been said of the late coach Jerry Tarkanian.

0:18:44 - (Toby Brooks): When did you start working with the men's basketball program?

0:18:47 - (Toby Brooks): The photo I came across was from 89.

0:18:49 - (Toby Brooks): Where.

0:18:50 - (Toby Brooks): Where did you come into the equation as a member of the men's basketball program?

0:18:55 - (Larry Chin): So I started out as my first year of college as a student manager for football in 1974. But I kind of, like, stayed in contact with basketball and kind of, like, helped the student manager who was handling Jerry Tarquin and the running Rebels. And so eventually, that student manager graduated after the 76th season, and so I took over the managerial job, or the running Rebels in 76 77, which was their first final four year.

0:19:30 - (Larry Chin): I tell you what, looking back now and seeing how lucky I was, timing wise and everything, so going back, people don't realize this, but my first year in 74 with the football team is the only time the football team went undefeated during the regular season.

0:19:51 - (Toby Brooks): You're a good lucky.

0:19:53 - (Larry Chin): Then I take over the men's basketball program, and we go to the first final four. So it's kind of like. Yeah, I kind of like this place.

0:20:02 - (Toby Brooks): Well, if your athletic director is listening, take note, because that unprecedented success has.

0:20:07 - (Toby Brooks): A common denominator, and it's Larry Chin.

0:20:09 - (Toby Brooks): So thank you for that. Yeah. So the 1989 team saw this highly decorated roster. Stacey Augment, Anderson Hunt, David Butler, Greg Anthony and Larry Johnson.

0:20:20 - (Toby Brooks): What do you remember most about that.

0:20:22 - (Toby Brooks): Season and that team?

0:20:24 - (Larry Chin): Well, the whole thing there was, you know, UNLV has always, especially all during the eighties, has had really good teams. But the teams were very much similar. And by that I mean we're a collection of great shooters. We always had a very good point guard. And we always had one poach player who could clean up the mess underneath the boards. But we're always missing that one extra piece in the paint.

0:20:57 - (Larry Chin): Somebody could really just dominate inside the paint and cause people problems. And all during the eighties, we're looking for that person. We just could never find that person. And here comes Larry Johnson. Okay. And the whole thing there is you're associating Larry Johnson with those other great names. But those guys were actually already here in the 88 season. So they were already here. We just needed that one piece.

0:21:30 - (Larry Chin): And Larry Johnson was going to be the key piece. So coach Tarkini went all out to go get them. And, you know, and as soon as we got them, we said finally, we may have actually have all the pieces put together now. And we were correct on that.

0:21:45 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah, that 8990 team. I was in high school at the time. And it was certainly an exciting brand of basketball to watch. It's up tempo and just athletic and could score from all over the place for you as a member of the staff. Lots of times people don't get to see under the hood, so to speak. What were those guys like as individuals, as you're making road trips and setting up the locker room for them?

0:22:11 - (Toby Brooks): How would you characterize that bunch?

0:22:14 - (Larry Chin): Well, you know, here there's an interesting thing. So, see, I. That team would have been the third team that made it to the final four. The other team being the 87 and the 77 team. Now, the 77 team was kind of like what you saw in movies. And by that I mean a bunch of guys who are having too much of a good time, great athletes, but playing practical jokes and silly stuff like that. They were just a silly bunch, but, you know, get them on the floor and boy, they played their rear ends off.

0:22:50 - (Larry Chin): Now, the 89 90 championship team was the total polar opposite. You know, we always got highlighted as street thugs and hoodlums. Nothing could be further from the truth. Those were the nicest guys ever.

0:23:13 - (Toby Brooks): Quick recap here.

0:23:14 - (Toby Brooks): In 1977, Larry began working with the Rebels men's basketball team. Where he famously was the guy who got the trademark damp white towels that legendary coach Jerry Tarkanian would munch on during the games.

0:23:27 - (Toby Brooks): His tenure with the team lasted through those unforgettable rebel teams that won the NCAA championship in 1990 and went undefeated in the 1991 regular season, which included, among other notable greats, Larry Johnson, which is where I first discovered him, posing.

0:23:43 - (Toby Brooks): Proudly on the left side of a 1989 to 1990 UNLV men's basketball team.

0:23:48 - (Toby Brooks): Photo I found for sale on eBay.

0:23:51 - (Toby Brooks): Now, on most any team, especially one.

0:23:53 - (Toby Brooks): As high profile as those UNLV squads.

0:23:56 - (Toby Brooks): There'S a public perception.

0:23:58 - (Toby Brooks): Many thought Tarkanian was perhaps a bit.

0:24:00 - (Toby Brooks): Of too similar to Meyer as far.

0:24:01 - (Toby Brooks): As recruiting and NCAA violations went.

0:24:04 - (Toby Brooks): And perhaps because of their swagger and.

0:24:06 - (Toby Brooks): Athleticism, or simply because they were confident, successful and young black men in 1990, they were frequently portrayed in the media as and for the record, I hate.

0:24:15 - (Toby Brooks): These dog whistle racist words, thugs or hoodlums. But ask those on the inside of.

0:24:20 - (Toby Brooks): The program and they'll tell you the truth.

0:24:22 - (Toby Brooks): Strength coach, the athletic trainer, the equipment.

0:24:25 - (Toby Brooks): Manager, people that work with these guys day in and day out of.

0:24:28 - (Toby Brooks): And Larry was one of those insiders.

0:24:30 - (Toby Brooks): And in his words, those teams were composed of, quote, some of the nicest guys ever, end quote. And not only were they nice, they were good.

0:24:42 - (Toby Brooks): In a fantastic quote captured in a.

0:24:44 - (Toby Brooks): 2009 issue of the Las Vegas Review, Journal reporter Mark Anderson recounted, after routing.

0:24:50 - (Toby Brooks): Loyola Marymount 131 to 101 to reach.

0:24:54 - (Toby Brooks): The Final Four, an NCAA official asked.

0:24:56 - (Toby Brooks): Chen if the team wanted to cut down the Nets.

0:24:59 - (Toby Brooks): Chen asked Johnson, who replied, no, those.

0:25:03 - (Toby Brooks): Aren'T the ones we want, end quote. That's a champions mindset, friends.

0:25:09 - (Larry Chin): Matter of fact, it got to the point where the infamous room check, you know, where a coach or somebody goes around and checks everybody's room to make sure they're in their rooms and they're not running around. We basically didn't have to do that anymore because again, with the exception of Larry, everybody was returning and they really knew what was on the line. And it was Greg Anthony who basically just told everybody, look, says coach shouldn't have to do room check. He says, matter of fact, if you're not in your room like you're supposed to be and you're not doing what you're supposed to be doing, I'll ask coach to kick you off the team. I don't care who you are because it's kind of working.

0:25:48 - (Larry Chin): And we're going to got this mission to win a national championship and we're going to do it. And that was it.

0:25:54 - (Toby Brooks): Very, very businesslike and structured in their approach and that served that team well. I mean, you saw they, they were successful and then those individuals went on to find success after college as well. In particular, Larry was heavily recruited out of high school.

0:26:11 - (Toby Brooks): He ends up having some grade issues and goes to junior college.

0:26:15 - (Toby Brooks): So he comes to UNLV. He's not your typical 18 year old freshman.

0:26:20 - (Toby Brooks): How would you describe him as a.

0:26:21 - (Toby Brooks): Player and a teammate when he showed up in Las Vegas?

0:26:25 - (Larry Chin): Well, first off, you know, he comes here, and he's already got all of these accolades around him and everything, and we knew who he was, but just seeing him the first time, to see the physical specimen, he was just kind of like, well, he's definitely years ahead of other people his age. Okay. The other thing is, his demeanor was, I don't know how you would describe it. Not a lot of things rattled him.

0:26:57 - (Larry Chin): He would practice hard, he would play hard. But a testimony to that kind of stuff is when he was here, we had him listed as six foot ten. Well, he's not six foot ten. He's like about six six seven. Okay. But you could actually see clips of games where he went in to, like, take a short jumper or a layup and he'd get a shot blocked, but instead of, like, panicking, he basically would just go get his block shot and go right back up again. It was like, no big deal.

0:27:33 - (Larry Chin): It just would not rattle him. And that's a testimony to him. But also, too, there was a player on the team who played his position named Chris Dieter. And when we signed Larry Nakomer, he knew that he was never going to start again or have a chance to start. And so he kind of, like, made it his mission of, well, hey, says, I'm going to practice my rear end off and grab him and foul him and bump him and shove him and elbow him and do whatever I can to make him the toughest guy on the face of the earth.

0:28:06 - (Larry Chin): And there were actually times where they almost got into fist fights. But then afterwards, it's kind of like no big deal, you know? Thanks. Right.

0:28:15 - (Toby Brooks): Well, you mentioned the physicality that Larry brought, and this was at a time when basketball players didn't always embrace the weight room. It was still kind of a long and lanky and, you know, athletic basketball players at the time were typically not fairly slightly. What did UNLV have to offer, by the way of strength training, nutrition, sports medicine at the time? And do you feel like that played a role in helping him develop further.

0:28:40 - (Toby Brooks): After he got there?

0:28:42 - (Larry Chin): Well, let's face it, when Larry Johnson got here, he was already a physical specimen. Our weight program was run by Gil Reyes, who, believe it or not, ended up being the strength and exercise coach for Agassiz, the tennis player. Okay? So he knew what he was doing, and so we had a strength program and a conditioning program, and he ran it. He did a wonderful job.

0:29:09 - (Toby Brooks): Well, this show is about how failure and adversity can sometimes be exactly what we needed in order to eventually find our victory. And that 1991 team went undefeated, but.

0:29:18 - (Toby Brooks): They fell just short. How do you think that that loss.

0:29:21 - (Toby Brooks): In the NCAA tournament affected? We'll kind of talk about it in layers. The university, the team, and maybe even you personally.

0:29:29 - (Larry Chin): Yeah, you know, well, the whole thing there is the next year, you know, the 90 91 team that went undefeated, there were two things that we talked about. One was that two goals were to try to go undefeated, and the other one was to repeat as a national champion. I myself always thought that going undefeated the entire year was going to be the hardest part. Because when you play that many games, when you play well over 30 games, there's always that one or two games where nothing seems to go right.

0:30:04 - (Larry Chin): And if by chance the team or the opponent you are playing has got everything in order and they're scoring in bunches, well, you could easily get upset. And you see that at any school, at any level, that happens all the time. So just going undefeated was kind of like a crowning achievement in itself. Now, as far as the loss to Duke, the whole thing there was. Would a loss instead of undefeated season change to change the situation?

0:30:34 - (Larry Chin): Maybe. We'll never know. Okay. But I do know that several things did change from the previous year to the next year. And one was people have to look back at that national championship team and see all of this stuff they went through. A reminder, the national championship team, they lost six games. And a lot of those games were early on. And that was because the NCAA was punishing athletes for these so called incidentals, that is, room charges, their phone bills and stuff like that, that hadn't been paid yet.

0:31:10 - (Larry Chin): So this was before Tarkinian got here. It was the previous coach, and they had a recruit come in and exactly what happened, happened. And that was he was scheduled to fly out. His flight got delayed 3 hours. The assistant coach sat with him and the kid finally says, God, I'm starving. So the assistant coach stuck a quarter in the machine, bought him a candy bar, and that was an NCAA violation.

0:31:35 - (Toby Brooks): Oh my goodness.

0:31:37 - (Larry Chin): And so, and so they just happened like 71, 72. So by the time they caught up with us, it was our 78 season, which we had to, like, forfeit the entire year and sit out a whole year, not go to DNC tournament because of a candy bar.

0:31:52 - (Toby Brooks): Wow.

0:31:53 - (Larry Chin): I did not know that basically every game, or I want to believe it was like seven games in a row, one athlete had to sit out the game. So they're in that span. We didn't have all five starters on the floor. We had four starters. So that makes it quite a, quite a different kind of thing. But the other one was, I can remember this, and Shaquille O'Neal Wall would say this. Yeah, you and I became the LSU, and they had all these NBA players and we beat them. And from that point on, I knew I was something.

0:32:29 - (Larry Chin): Well, he's kind of forgetting Stacey augment didn't play in that game, so that could have just might have been a factor, right?

0:32:41 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah. That revisionist history is always.

0:32:44 - (Larry Chin): Yes.

0:32:45 - (Toby Brooks): Well, it's been great chatting with you and reminiscing. Anything in particular stand out to you? You had two full seasons as a member of the staff along with Larry. As a player. What stands out in your mind maybe the most about working with him?

0:33:02 - (Larry Chin): Well, I always thought it was an outstanding team player. He walked in and what his stature and everything and what he was and who he was. He could have very easily have just walked on campus and looked at our team and said, hey, I'm boss now. We're going to do what I say we're going to do. Well, he wasn't like that. He came in, he said, I want to fit in. I want to help you guys. I want to win a championship with you guys.

0:33:28 - (Larry Chin): You know, tell me what you need and I'll do it. You know, and so it was, it was, he and the rest of the team were just a wonderful group of athletes to work with.

0:33:39 - (Toby Brooks): Well, there's been much said about the scrutiny that that team came under and, and you hit the nail on the head and talking about some of the NCAA, whether they're violations or accusations or whatever, and today, you know, we look back on it and we live in an era now where nil is a thing and you're involved in college athletics in a very different time. And how would you say you've seen that morph over the years of your career in the kind of professionalization of college sport?

0:34:12 - (Larry Chin): Well, I think you hit it on the head and it's like a professionalization of college sports. Yeah. I'm not going to say if it's right or wrong, but it's just changed the entire demeanor of college athletics, be it basketball, football or any other sport. I agreed there should have been an nil in place and everything, but they rushed into it so quickly. That kind of puzzled me.

0:34:35 - (Toby Brooks): Isn't it amazing to look back at how restrictive it used to be and now it just feels like a contract free professional league where athletes can come and go and, you know, they're free to transfer and they can get paid whatever they get paid. And certainly I can relate wherever. Working in support staff for decades, you're told, you know, well, we don't have money for more salaries or more staff positions.

0:35:00 - (Toby Brooks): And now all of a sudden, student athletes coming out of high school are making half a million, million dollars a year. And it's kind of hard to swallow for those of us that have been in the trenches for a while, right?

0:35:12 - (Larry Chin): Absolutely.

0:35:13 - (Toby Brooks): Well, Larry, it's been a real pleasure. Thank you so much. I appreciate you dropping in and sharing your memories.

0:35:20 - (Larry Chin): I'm Larry Chen and I am undone.

0:35:24 - (Toby Brooks): For Larry Chan. He's proven himself to be a beloved cornerstone of the UNLV athletics department in a career that spanned more than four decades in county, which is absolutely remarkable. I'm thankful for him for dropping in and sharing his perspective and insights. And I hope you enjoyed our conversation, too. Next time on the becoming undone docu series, the making and remaking of Larry Johnson. I'll take a bit of a detour and look at some other aspects of the Larry Johnson story.

0:35:50 - (Toby Brooks): Still working to connect with Larry's former agent, George Bass, as well as former converse exec Roger Morningstar. Will we ever get to hear from the man himself?

0:36:01 - (Larry Chin): I'm hoping.

0:36:01 - (Toby Brooks): Still working on it. Stick around and find out. New this week I am personally inviting you, the listener who made it to far my loyal friend and fellow high achiever, you y o u. I want you to sign up for my free email newsletter which will go out every Sunday. Go to Undonepodcast CK page that's page and sign up. It's totally free and something that I hope will bring you value as a part of the becoming undone community.

0:36:31 - (Toby Brooks): In other big news, I've also created a YouTube channel for the show where you can find find interviews and clips from recent shows. Go to YouTube dot comdonepodcast and check it out. Lord Willin, I'll meet you again next Thursday. Becoming Undone is a nitro hype creative production written and produced by me, Toby Brooks. Tell a friend about the show and follow along on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn at becomingundonepod and follow me obijbrooks on x Instagram and TikTok.

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0:37:24 - (Toby Brooks): Till next time, keep getting better.