109 | From Champion to Starter with 2X Super Bowl Champion Carl Banks

About the Guest

Carl Banks is a legendary NFL linebacker, recognized for his influential career with the New York Giants where he secured two Super Bowl championships. The #3 overall pick in the 1984 NFL Draft out of Michigan State, Banks transitioned successfully from sports to business. Currently, he serves as the president of G-III Sports, a division of G-III Apparel Group, overseeing the production of licensed apparel for major sports leagues. Banks also played a pivotal role in revitalizing the Starter Corporation, a once iconic sportswear brand, through innovative business leadership.

Episode Summary

In this engaging episode of Becoming UnDone, host Toby Brooks sits down with NFL legend Carl Banks to delve into the story of his rise from a multi-sport athlete in Flint, Michigan to a renowned College All American, NFL All-Pro, and business leader. Brooks and Banks explore the trials and triumphs of Carl's journey, beginning with his standout college career at Michigan State, where he emerged as a Big Ten defensive standout despite playing for underperforming teams. Banks' journey is a lesson in resilience, underscored by influential mentorship, like that of NFL icon Jack Ham, who honed his skills for the professional stage.

In transitioning to the NFL's New York Giants, Carl Banks quickly cemented his status in the league with his championship spirit and fierce work ethic—a blend that went unnoticed by none, including fellow Giants like Lawrence Taylor. Beyond the gridiron, Carl's story doesn't halt; it shifts into a transformative business career where his creative passions and leadership spurred the rebirth of Starter as a pivotal brand in sports fashion. Through this insightful exchange, listeners gain a vivid understanding of Banks’ dedicated mindset and how key life lessons from sports can transfer into successful business ventures.

Key Takeaways

• Carl Banks’ journey from Flint, Michigan, to NFL stardom embodies perseverance and resilience, despite early adversities in college football.
• Influential mentorship from NFL legends like Jack Ham played a crucial role in Banks’ development and success in football.
• The transition from the NFL to business was natural for Banks, integrating his creative pursuits with leadership in sports apparel.
• Rejuvenating the Starter brand under Banks' guidance signifies his impact on sports fashion, making nostalgia relevant in contemporary markets.
• The principles of hard work and unwavering confidence are central to Carl’s career, both on and off the field.

Notable Quotes

• “I had a champion spirit, you understand? I always had great coaching, and not just great coaching, great teachers.”
• “George Perlis obviously had come from the pros, and he said to me, ‘you're a pro football player.’”
• “Lawrence Taylor practiced faster and harder than I ever played in a game in college, so I knew I had to ramp up.”
• “I just held on to my one and only call with Parcells post-draft… ‘I didn’t draft you to sit on the bench.’”
• “I knew where I stood in the Big Ten amongst players.”

Resources

• Carl Banks Instagram

Transcript

0:00:00 - (Carl Banks): Foreign. This is Becoming Undone. I had a champion spirit, you understand. I, like I said, I been a champion from middle school going up, right? I always had great coaching, and not just great coaching, great teachers. And that was academic and athletically great teachers. So I was never going to accept that I wasn't good enough, right? But it was just a matter of, you know, people seeing it. So I, I was the best linebacker in the Big Ten. 

0:00:52 - (Toby Brooks): Hey, friend. I'm glad you're here. Welcome to yet another episode of Becoming Undone, the podcast for those who dare bravely risk mightily and grow relentlessly. I'm Toby Brooks, a speaker, an author and a professor. I've spent much of the last two decades working as an athletic trainer and a strength coach in the professional, collegiate and high school sports settings. And over the years, I've grown more and more fascinated with what sets high achievers apart and how failures that suck in the moment can end up being exactly the push we needed to propel us along our paths to success. 

0:01:22 - (Toby Brooks): Each week on Becoming Undone, I invite new guests to examine how high achievers can transform from falling apart to falling into place. I'd like to emphasize that this show is entirely separate from my role at Baylor University, but it's my attempt to apply what I've learned and what I'm learning and to share with others about the mindsets of high achievers. Welcome back to another episode of Becoming Undone. In this episode, I sit down with NFL legend Carl Banks, a two time super bowl champion and a key figure in sports fashion innovation. 

0:02:01 - (Toby Brooks): From his roots in Flint, Michigan to his rise as a first round draft pick, Karl's journey is a masterclass in resilience and reinvention. In this brief conversation, we explore his path through Michigan State's challenging football years, his transition to the New York Giants big blue wrecking crew defense, and his remarkable post NFL pivot into business leadership. This is a story of grit, transformation and the relentless pursuit of purpose that I know you're just going to love. 

0:02:29 - (Toby Brooks): Let's dive into episode 109 from Champion to starter with Carl Banks. 

0:02:34 - (Toby Brooks): So joining me today is Carl Banks, joining me from New York. Just got back from a trip overseas with the Giants. Carl, thanks so much for joining me. 

0:02:43 - (Carl Banks): Thanks for having me, Toby. 

0:02:45 - (Toby Brooks): Well, I got interested in your story. Full disclosure, I was not a Giants fan growing up. I was more of a Cowboys fan, but certainly respected all good your teams and the tremendous accomplishments. I've really got onto your story. In researching for a previous story about Larry Johnson and the Charlotte Hornets and The Starter Corp. And from that discovered that you've taken some pretty remarkable turns since your football career. So we really want to dig in today and look at your story growing up. 

0:03:17 - (Toby Brooks): And we'll get to the starter stuff later. But I always start with a little bit of a softball question. What'd you want to be growing up and why? 

0:03:25 - (Carl Banks): Well, it depends on at what point I wanted to grow up. I think, you know, I grew up in a blue collar town, Flint, Michigan. And you know, most of my relatives are General Motors workers, automobile workers. And I knew I wanted to go to college. Playing sports was not high on my list when I was in my developmental years. It was. I was just more of a creative, you know, I just loved doing things creatively. So I didn't know what that would be, whether it be an architect, a design of some sort. But, you know, just the whole creative aspect was something I gravitated towards. 

0:04:11 - (Toby Brooks): It's interesting and certainly your career, probably first and most well known for football, but those creative pursuits have certainly followed you into today. Let's dig in a little bit to the football side of things. You were a linebacker, third overall pick in the 1984 NFL Draft, coming out of Michigan State, first team All American. Talk to me about the college process. A lot of my listeners are either former college or pro athletes. And that recruitment process is certainly one where it really can dictate the path moving forward. So how'd you end up with deciding on Michigan State? 

0:04:47 - (Carl Banks): Well, the irony of Michigan State, it had probably very little to do with the football program. I was, I was pretty highly recruited coming out of high school, but I was kind of an athlete without a position because in high school I was a defensive tackle and an offensive tackle. But most of the colleges came to watch me play basketball and just kind of visualized I was either going to be a linebacker or a tight end. And I was really good basketball player in Flint. 

0:05:22 - (Carl Banks): But I spent most of my time in high school just perfecting my basketball skills. And, you know, I used to go to a camp in East Lansing, Michigan, where Michigan State is. And it was the Magic Johnson Dr. Tucker camp. And I spent two summers there working out. And when my senior year came along or my post senior year, and it was time for me to start taking visits. I'd gone to Oklahoma with Barry Switcher was there. And it was, it was scary because during that era, unlike this one, you know, teams get on probation for the things that Barry was offering. 

0:06:06 - (Carl Banks): And they eventually did get on probation, but did the circuit of the Big Ten schools. I did some schools out of the Big Ten. In Michigan State was a visit that I took and they were just getting off of probation. Daryl Rogers was the head coach. I spent maybe 10 minutes talking to Darrell Rogers. And the entire time I spoke to Darrell Rogers, he had a newspaper up over his face. He talked to me from behind the newspaper. 

0:06:42 - (Carl Banks): And so I wasn't too keen on going to University of Michigan. And I ran into Magic Johnson on campus and he just said to me, I know that the football program isn't where it should be. He says, but I guarantee you, if you decide to go to Michigan State, you will not regret it and you will have the time of your life and it'll set you up for the future. And I took him at his word and the rest was history. I was on about three years worth of really bad football teams, but I just kept playing hard and you know, the campus life, the relationships that I built at Michigan State were great. And I think it just kind of helped form my character into what it is today, you know, because coming from high school and middle school, I was always a champion. We were state champions in basketball and in track, so we were always winning. And then I go to Michigan State and it's just the polar opposite. 

0:07:59 - (Carl Banks): But I never let that environment dilute my winning principles. I always subscribe to winning principles and I always wanted to make sure that I was always high achieving. I didn't know where that. I don't. I didn't know where that would land me amongst other players in the college landscape because they had some really big schools that played on tv. Nebraska, Florida, Florida State, Oklahoma, and, you know, Michigan and Ohio State. 

0:08:32 - (Carl Banks): So I knew where I stood in the Big Ten amongst players. 

0:08:39 - (Toby Brooks): Carl was considered a prized recruit coming out of high school, but he faced plenty of adversity playing for those spartan teams of the early 80s. The team won a combined 14291 during Banks four seasons in East Lansing. And the struggle to find success on the field ultimately resulted in a coaching change before his senior year. Despite being one of the most celebrated members on the team as a returning two time Big Ten linebacker, his relationship with new head coach George Perles began on shaky ground due to a bad scouting report that led Perles to believe that Banks was a troublemaker before he'd even met him. 

0:09:14 - (Toby Brooks): This misconception made head coach Perles Ryde bank so hard that Carl nearly decided to transfer out. But a conversation with his father encouraged him to address the issue directly. After an honest discussion, Perles and Banks Reconciled, and Perles eventually named Banks defensive captain. With mentorship from NFL legend Jack Ham, Banks refined his skills and had a breakout senior season, earning not only first team all Big Ten honors again, but also a spot on the All America team. 

0:09:44 - (Toby Brooks): His leadership and unwavering commitment during these trying times highlighted his dedication, and it set the stage for an opportunity at the next level. But at the time, playing for a relatively unsuccessful program in a pre Internet era meant his opportunities to be seen by NFL scouts were fairly limited. He needed some exposure, and he found a path forward through the guidance of former Pittsburgh Steeler linebacking legend Jack Ham. 

0:10:10 - (Carl Banks): That was pretty good. I was all Big Ten first team three years in a row, so I kind of knew that. But there was no Internet. So there were a publication that came out preseason, one in the middle of the season and one at the end of the season, Streets and Smith. Right. And I wasn't even honorable mentioned in the preseason. In the, in season one, I think I was honorable mention because I was on Big Ten. 

0:10:39 - (Carl Banks): And then the postseason, it kind of ranked me amongst some of the top linebackers, but just at the bottom of the ranking. So I didn't know what the future held for me in football. But I was a communications major and I thought I'd be running an ad agency or owning an advertising agency, writing commercials, because again, that's my, my creative side. And so I got my degree my senior year. George Perlis came over from the Pittsburgh Steelers and my football life changed forever because he brought in the great Jack Ham during spring practice, and he spent a couple weeks with me and really refined how I played the linebacker position and went on to have a great senior year. 

0:11:31 - (Carl Banks): It was the most wins I had since I had been there, which I think was like six or seven. And you know, the draft came along and didn't know really where I stood. I, you know, I did not get invited to any of the all Star games. I was not invited to either combine. There were two combines at the time. I was not invited to either one of those. And so I just didn't know what the future held for me as a football player. 

0:12:03 - (Carl Banks): But, you know, George Perlis obviously had come from the pros, and he said to me, he says, you're a pro football player. He says, here's what I want you to do. He says, I want you to go. There's a bowl game I want you to play in. And it's not about who the players that are going to be there, it's about who's coaching he said, this Blue Gray game in Birmingham, Alabama on Christmas Eve, it's coached by all NFL coaches. 

0:12:37 - (Carl Banks): And he said, I guarantee you by the time you get back from that for All Star game, your phone will be ringing off the hook and you'll get invitations to everything because I know what these coaches are looking for and you're in. And so I went, I played in the game. I think I was MVP of the game or defensive MVP of the game. And sure enough, by the time I got back that Monday, I walked into the coach's office and there was invitation to the combine, to the pro, the Hula Bowl, East West, Shrine, and there was one other. 

0:13:18 - (Carl Banks): And so I went, had a good time, knew that I stacked up pretty well with some of the bigger names that I was reading about and seeing on tv. And then I went to the combine and just did my best. And my best got me up to the number three pick in the NFL draft. 

0:13:41 - (Toby Brooks): Such a remarkable story to, to go from not being invited to third pick overall. Just tremendous. But what was your thought process during that time? Did you really feel like you had an ability that people just weren't seeing or did it take that coach to speak that life into you in order to believe? 

0:13:58 - (Carl Banks): No, no, no, I, I had a champion spirit, you understand? I, like I said, I've been a champion from middle school going up, right. I always had great coaching, and not just great coaching, great teaching, great teachers. And that was academic and athletically great teachers. So I was never going to accept that I wasn't good enough. Right. But it was just a matter of, you know, people seeing it. So I, I was the best linebacker in the Big Ten. 

0:14:33 - (Carl Banks): I think I got the buckets award. I think my brother said I have it. But at that time it was just starting to come up. But you know, it was just a matter of when Perlis, when George told me that just go, the pros need to see you. And that was probably a function also of all the bigger schools being on tv, like the Arizona states and the Arizonas pros knew who they were. Michigan State wasn't even on the radar. They had Michigan and Ohio State that were, you know, constantly fighting it out to go to the Rose Bowl. 

0:15:07 - (Carl Banks): So I, I just believed in my abilities and I knew how I stacked up. But it wasn't the end all be all to me. I just, you know, I had plans, I had plans beyond football and I again, I had great teachers and one of my best mentors was a man named Pete Buderakis. He ran, he Owned Grace Lawn Cemetery. I worked in the cemetery from high school all the way through college. And I used to spend so much time talking with him, talking about life and being around people who were trying to rehabilitate their lives and getting wisdom from those people as well. So it was, you know, when they say it takes a village, it was literally a village of people that just gave me support. 

0:16:00 - (Carl Banks): And I have parents. My mother and father were always supportive. Their only requirement of me when it came to sports was just that I wore the right equipment, be at practice on time and give it my best, you know, that's the extent of them being a sports parent. Right. And don't let the coach come home and tell me you weren't giving your best, you know, so the world would. 

0:16:25 - (Toby Brooks): Be such a better place if more sports parents were like. And just get on the way. 

0:16:29 - (Carl Banks): Yeah. 

0:16:33 - (Toby Brooks): Growing up in Flint, a city known for its blue collar ethos, Banks embodied hard work from a young age. And Banks job at Grace Lawn Cemetery wasn't just about physical labor. It was about perspective too. In a city like Flint, where economic hardships were prevalent, working at a place associated with finality most likely provided early understanding of the brevity of life and the importance of purpose. 

0:16:57 - (Toby Brooks): That depth of experience contributed to his unshakable focus and mental toughness as he transitioned to college, then the NFL, where survival means outlasting and outworking opponents, not just in games, but in life. It was a grit, a toughness, and an appreciation for earning every victory that has served him well ever since. 

0:17:21 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah, I had my notes that you were employed at Grace Lawn Cemetery. And that part of the world is definitely blue collar and hard working and tough. And that was really kind of the. The ethos you took into the NFL. Talk me through what it was like to jump from, from Michigan State to, to the Giants. 

0:17:40 - (Carl Banks): So I'll give you the Reader's digest version of it because, you know, I didn't even know I was going to be drafted third overall. I did not know a lot about the Giants. I was in Michigan, so I saw Minnesota, Detroit and Chicago. Right. I didn't know I knew who Lawrence Taylor was, obviously, but they drafted me. And then I started to look up things and people started to tell me what kind of, you know, linebackers they had. And I found out that there were four all pro linebackers already on the team. 

0:18:23 - (Toby Brooks): Banks entry into the Giants linebacker core reads like a trial by fire. Being surrounded by future hall of Famers such as Lawrence Taylor and Harry Carson could have been intimidating. But Instead, it solidified his place among the NFL's elite. It's a powerful reminder that sometimes the fastest growth happens when we're held to a higher standard from day one. In many ways, Carl's story mirrors that of other high achievers who didn't see early recognition as an endpoint, but rather as fuel for their next chapter. 

0:18:54 - (Toby Brooks): And that fuel powered him to a stellar 12 season NFL career highlighted by two Super bowl championships, 21 and 25 with the New York Giants. He was named a first team All Pro bowl and Pro Bowler in 1987 and earned a spot on the NFL's 1980s all decade team. Known for his toughness and defensive dominance, he recorded 39.5 sacks, 860 tackles, and became a key member of one of the NFL's greatest linebacker units ever. 

0:19:24 - (Carl Banks): Four All Pro linebackers already on the team, one of which was Brad Van Pelt, who I knew he played for the Giants, but I didn't follow Brad past high school, right? He was our, he was our, our hero growing up. And so when I got there I was like, oh wow, these are for of the best linebackers in football. But I just, I just held on to my one and only call with parcel post draft and it was brief. Hey, we drafted you. Congratulations. I didn't draft you to sit on the bench. 

0:20:00 - (Carl Banks): And that just stayed with me, right? So no matter what, that stayed with me. And, and so when I got there, I see Lawrence Taylor and Harry Carson and you know, Harry Carson looks at me and says, so what the hell are you going to do to get on the field, right? And I didn't quite know what that meant until I got to my first practice. And Lawrence Taylor, I kid you not, practiced faster and harder than I ever played in a game in college. 

0:20:31 - (Carl Banks): So I knew I had to, I knew I had to ramp up. 

0:20:37 - (D): They don't have to force things here. Second and 12. Millen has a pass picked off by Carl Banks and he's in the end zone. And the Giants take the lead. Celebration. Marcel would say, get back to the bench. I have no idea what the Falcons did. I thought originally they'd just run the clock out and play overtime. They got a backup quarterback coming in cold, hasn't played, and. And they go with nothing. Huddle on third and long and pass the ball. 

0:21:11 - (D): He just looks out here. Carl Banks is perfect. Perfect coverage, intercepts. 

0:21:17 - (Toby Brooks): After retiring from the NFL after the 1995 season, Carl transitioned into the business world, becoming president of G3 Sports, a division of G3 Apparel Group. And taking that same championship mindset that had served him so well on the field and in the locker room, the marketplace, and the boardroom. In this role, he's overseen the production of licensed apparel for major sports leagues including the NFL, NHL, NBA, mlb, and a number of colleges and universities. 

0:21:46 - (Toby Brooks): Carl later played a pivotal role in revitalizing the iconic sportswear brand Starter. Beginning as an athlete brand ambassador in 85 when he was with the Giants, he eventually helped orchestrate the revival of the once iconic brand. In 2012, under his leadership, G3 partnered with Starter to reintroduce their classic clothing items like their satin jackets and who could forget the quarter zip nylon pullover? 

0:22:12 - (Toby Brooks): Blending nostalgia with contemporary fashion, this initiative not only brought Starter back into the spotlight, but also demonstrated Carl's ability to navigate and influence the sports apparel industry and those complex licensing requirements. Banks post, NFL Ventures as well as the Starter Corporation itself exemplify the themes of Becoming Undone, showcasing his resilience and adaptability in reinventing himself beyond his athletic career. 

0:22:40 - (Toby Brooks): By leveraging that sports background with his creative passions, he's made incredible contributions to the fashion industry, embodying the relentless growth and daring spirit that we celebrate here on Becoming Undone. I'm hopeful we'll be able to reconnect soon to hear not only the rest of Karl's story, but but also to dig deeper into the remarkable journey of Starter. I'm incredibly thankful to Carl for dropping in and I hope you enjoyed our conversation. 

0:23:06 - (Toby Brooks): For more info on today's episode, be sure to check it out on the web. Simply go to undonepodcast.com ep109 to see the notes, links and images related to today's guest, Carl Banks. I know there are great stories out there to be told and I'm always on the lookout. So if you or someone you know has a story that we can all be inspired by, tell me about it. Surf on over to undonepodcast.com, click the contact tab in the top menu and drop me a note. 

0:23:34 - (Toby Brooks): Coming up on the show, I've got some awesome new guests, but in the meantime I'm also dropping a ton of new episodes on my short form podcast, the Professor's Playbook, so be sure to check that out. This and more coming up on Becoming Undone. Becoming Undone is a Nitrohype creative production written and produced by me, Toby Brooks. Tell a friend about the show, follow along on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn at becomingundonepod and follow me obijbrooks on x Instagram and TikTok. 

0:24:02 - (Toby Brooks): Check out my link tree at linktr ee. Tobyjbrooks Listen, subscribe and leave me a review at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts. Till next time. Keep getting better.