110 | Beyond Beliefs: How Ryan Kalish Found a New Purpose After MLB

About the Guest

Ryan Kalish is a former Major League Baseball player who made his mark in professional sports as a promising athlete with the Boston Red Sox and Chicago Cubs. Known for his speed and athleticism, Kalish navigated a career punctuated with challenges, including numerous surgeries and injuries. After baseball, he transitioned into entrepreneurship, co-owning Birdman Bats, and explored therapeutic modalities, becoming a Pilates instructor. Currently, he is focused on innovative training techniques aimed at injury prevention and recovery, drawing on his experiences as a professional athlete.

Episode Summary

In this inspiring episode of Becoming UnDone, host Toby Brooks chats with Ryan Kalish, a once-promising Major League Baseball player whose journey has been marked by incredible highs and devastating lows. From his early days as a celebrated athlete in New Jersey to his time with the Boston Red Sox and Chicago Cubs, Kalish's story is a testament to resilience and reinvention. Despite the physical and mental toll of enduring 14 surgeries, Kalish has transformed his experiences into new opportunities, paving the way for his next chapter as an entrepreneur and innovator in fitness training.

Ryan Kalish delves into the realities of his professional baseball career, sharing candid insights into his struggles with injuries and the mental health challenges he faced after retiring from the game. His journey underscores the importance of purpose and reinvention, as he channels his competitive spirit into entrepreneurial ventures and innovative fitness methodologies. Through this compelling narrative, listeners gain a deeper understanding of what it means to confront adversity and emerge with newfound strength and insight. Kalish's openness about his journey offers invaluable lessons on finding purpose beyond setbacks, making this episode a must-listen for anyone seeking inspiration in the face of life's challenges.

Key Takeaways:

• Ryan Kalish's impressive athletic career was overshadowed by the challenges of 14 surgeries, underscoring the physical and mental resilience required to navigate professional sports.
• The transition from professional athlete to life beyond baseball involved a profound struggle with depression and a quest for renewed purpose.
• Kalish's entrepreneurial journey, including his involvement with Birdman Bats and real estate ventures, highlights his drive to find fulfillment post-baseball.
• The unique fitness concept developed by Kalish, focused on decompression and reverse methodologies, showcases his innovative approach to training and rehabilitation.
• The episode emphasizes the power of overcoming negative self-talk and the potential of pursuing groundbreaking ideas, no matter how unconventional they may seem.

Notable Quotes:

1. "What am I going to do now and what's next? Like, I don't know anything else."
2. "It was extremely difficult mentally and physically… I always had to just have this fight mentality."
3. "I felt I was invincible… and that's just not… It wasn't true."
4. "Can the reverse of a squat be useful? I shouldn't feel ashamed about asking that question."
5. "Believe your negative self-talk, and you

Transcript

0:00:04 - (Ryan Kalish):From the years of, I want to say, 2011 through 2017, I ended up accumulating like 13 surgeries at this time. Yeah, it was extremely difficult mentally and physically. And, yeah, you always had to just have this fight mentality. Like, I am good at this game. I am injured right now, but I need to find out if I can squeeze more out of my career. I realized I was gonna retire during the game and it was a big emotion. Like, I cried a lot that day. So this, this is definitely dark times.

0:00:50 - (Ryan Kalish): So what am I gonna do now and what's next? Like, I don't know anything else. I was, you know, like I said, I was a young child and I learned that I love. Now I'm 30 with depression. Understand why I was feeling this way. Ultimately, I felt and I knew that deep down it was a lack of purpose. I am Ryan Kalish and I am undone.

0:01:21 - (Toby Brooks): Hey, friend.

0:01:22 - (Toby Brooks): I'm glad you're here. Welcome to yet another episode of Becoming Undone, the podcast for those who dare bravely risk mightily and grow relentlessly. I'm Toby Brooks, a speaker, author, professor, and learning scientist.

0:01:33 - (Toby Brooks): I've spent much of the last two.

0:01:34 - (Toby Brooks): Decades working as an athletic trainer and a strength coach in the professional, collegiate, and high school sports settings. Over the years, I've grown more and more fascinated with what sets high achievers apart and how failures that can stink in the moment can end up being exactly what we needed to propel us along our paths to success. Each week on Becoming Undone, I invite new guests to examine how high achievers can transform from falling apart to. To falling into place.

0:01:58 - (Toby Brooks): I'd like to emphasize that this show is entirely separate from my role at Baylor University, but it's my attempt to apply what I've learned and what I'm learning and share with others about the mindsets of high achievers. I'm going to be honest with you. I've been doing this show for more than two years now. Becoming Undone is all about stories that challenge, inspire, redefine what it means to rise from setback.

0:02:33 - (Toby Brooks): I've interviewed super bowl champions, NBA stars, Navy Seals, Grammy Award winning artists, and countless others. Each and every one accomplished in their own way. People who stared failure and setback and adversity straight in the eye and didn't blink. But this week's guest and his story reached a part of me, and it hit differently. This week, I'm thrilled to welcome a guest whose journey takes us from the green monster of Fenway park and the Ivy of Wrigley. Field to the lonely, quiet reflection of personal reinvention.

0:03:03 - (Toby Brooks): Ryan Kalisch grew up a standout athlete, a phenom who excelled in both baseball and football and seemed destined for superstardom. But that path took a different turn, one marked by 14 surgeries, countless comebacks, and a relentless pursuit of purpose beyond the game. Now, joining me and you all the way from Thailand, Ryan opens up about the highs of playing for the Red Sox and the Cubs, the lows of injury and rehab and loss, to the surprising ways he's channeling his athletic past into a new mission. His story is raw, real stirring. It's a testament to the power of persistence.

0:03:38 - (Toby Brooks): Brace yourself, because in the next few minutes, I promise you're going to explore what it means to truly become undone. Let's dive in.

0:03:47 - (Toby Brooks): Really excited about this one. Joining me from Thailand is Ryan Kalish, who is a celebrated athlete, both in baseball primarily, but also in football, and a long story of overcoming injury and has kind of transformed that into a new mission. So, Ryan, thanks for joining me today.

0:04:04 - (Ryan Kalish): Yeah, man, no worries. Thanks for having me on.

0:04:07 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah. So this show is really about how adversity and setback and failure can set us up for success in later phases of life. And read up about your story. You were a celebrated high school athlete both in football and in baseball. It looks like New Jersey is where you kind of cut your teeth as a, as a young athlete. Always start at the beginning. What'd you want to be growing up and why?

0:04:30 - (Ryan Kalish): Baseball player. That was, it was, it was kind of. I was nine years old. My mom bought a Nerf bat and a Nerf baseball, and the next thing you know, I'm obsessed. I just have her throw me the ball and I want to hit the ball. And honestly, truth be told, it feels like it chose me. It doesn't really feel like I chose baseball or athletics in general. So it was very, very easy. Yeah, it just came to me. I loved it. I loved sports.

0:05:00 - (Ryan Kalish): And the next thing you know, you know, life's gone by and it's a career.

0:05:05 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah.

0:05:06 - (Toby Brooks): Well, I, I read in your bio that you were known for your speed. Obviously, base stealing was something that, that you were known for, but also a decorated football player as well. And that decision coming out of high school, whether to go pro or to try to play two sports in college. Talk me through that decision making process and, and the recruitment efforts.

0:05:27 - (Ryan Kalish): I mean, football was kind of blossomed a little bit later. You know, I started baseball when I was nine. High school football was when I first started playing football. So you Know, it was, I don't know, something new and a great sport, but I wasn't necessarily sure if I wanted to pursue that and I had no idea what it was going to be like. I ended up accepting a scholarship to the University of Virginia.

0:05:57 - (Ryan Kalish): But, yeah, I never ended up making it there as I got drafted by the Red Sox and decided to sign ultimately. So the process was really fun. I mean, it's kind of nice to be wanted, you know, by multiple people for your talents. So I had an enjoyable time. I had plenty of offers, but yeah, ultimately decided to sign professionally at 18.

0:06:20 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah, tremendous. @ that point in your life, you'd seen a lot of success and you enter baseball as a professional athlete. Obviously you don't start off in the big leagues. You gotta cut your teeth and work your way up. What was your relationship with failure up.

0:06:36 - (Toby Brooks): To that point in your life?

0:06:38 - (Ryan Kalish): Relationship with failure, That's a great question. I don't think I had much failure up to that point, honestly, now that you asked the question. I mean, it was, it was obvious very young that I was elite at baseball and athletics in general. And yeah, I mean, in, in the classroom, to be honest, I wasn't super interested. You know, I wanted to play sports and sports and yeah, failure was, it was there, you know, but in the short term, it really never lasted.

0:07:11 - (Ryan Kalish): It was definitely something that I learned later as the years would go on.

0:07:16 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah, I came across a quote from Peter Gammons, of all people, that said, Ron Kalish is a totally different athlete. He was advocating for you to your teammates in the Red Sox clubhouse. So it's all great things, success after success. You've got a bright future ahead. Your major league Debut occurs on July 31, 2010. Talk me through that experience and what it was like to step on a big league field as a big leaguer for the first time.

0:07:45 - (Ryan Kalish): I mean, it was, it was completely surreal, just to say the least. I mean, it was actually a, a very last second call up to the big league. So I didn't have much time to think, which is even better, right? You just, you just want to get out there and play. But yeah, it was very surreal. Even thinking back on it today, you know, I mean, it's an achievement that I need to be proud of because as we, obviously in this podcast, we'll tap into the injuries and everything.

0:08:15 - (Ryan Kalish): There has been a lot of times where I do look at my career as a failure and I'm starting to turn that around.

0:08:21 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah, I've talked to many athletes who have reflected on their careers and mentioned that in the moment, you're so consumed with what's next and achievement and whether it's making the team or making the starting rotation or whatever else. I had a guest, Charles Austin, who's.

0:08:40 - (Toby Brooks): An Olympic gold medalist, and he told.

0:08:42 - (Toby Brooks): Me he's standing on the metal podium at the 96 games, and he's pissed off at himself because he didn't break the world record. And just that thought that a high achiever has these goals and it's what leads you to that success. But in the moment, it doesn't let you really give yourself permission to take that in. And I can certainly see how, you know, you want to be the cool guy. You don't want to seem like the moment's bigger than you, but at the same time, that's special.

0:09:09 - (Toby Brooks): Not a lot of people get to play in a big league ballpark with. With a Red Sox jersey on.

0:09:15 - (Ryan Kalish): Is definitely something that I now appreciate more than ever. I think I was, honestly, I think I was very angry after my career ended and sad because of all the injuries and eventually not being able to play. So with some reflection years, I'm starting to see what you're saying finally.

0:09:37 - (Toby Brooks): Well, they said that they thought Kalish was going to be a superstar.

0:09:42 - (Toby Brooks): Well, if my research is correct, I kind of came across two injuries in particular that really kind of set your career in a different path. 2011, you crashed into a wall, missed most of that season. 2013, a shoulder injury derailed what was, as we said, Peter Gammons mentioning you as an elite athlete. You're headed toward superstardom, and suddenly that's not quite so certain. So talk me through that injury process and what it was like for you to navigate not just physically, but emotionally, mentally.

0:10:13 - (Ryan Kalish): Okay, so from. From the years of, I want to say, 2011 through 2017, I ended up accumulating like 13 surgeries at this time. And it's not even a joke. 13 is the number. It was, yeah, it was extremely difficult mentally and physically just to go through those sort of processes. And they, they were not small surgery. Some of them were. And, yeah, you always had to just have this. This fight mentality, like, I am good at this game.

0:10:50 - (Ryan Kalish): I am injured right now, but I need to find out if I can squeeze more out of my career. That was kind of the process that would go on and on. So it was like, play for about six months, get injured for the year or 18 months. And I did this a few separate times. And to actually, by the end of my last comeback, which was with the 2016 Chicago Cubs, which we ultimately won the World Series that year, And I played 12 games for them.

0:11:24 - (Ryan Kalish): I knew the formula. The formula was get healthy. You have to get on the field and you need to start taking live at bats. And eventually I knew with enough at bats I was going to be able to hit well again and play well again. And that belief was there. The belief that wasn't there is can I actually stay healthy.

0:11:54 - (Toby Brooks): As I tend to do on this show? I'm going to squeeze my way in here and unpack a few things. First, you need to understand what Ryan was in high school in order to really understand the gravity of what he's been through since then.

0:12:05 - (Toby Brooks): He he was by all accounts what.

0:12:07 - (Toby Brooks): Baseball folks would call a phenom. Other sports a prodigy. Regardless, it's clear from what was written about him on his ascent on the way up that many respected sports writers, scouts and coaches saw in him was the potential to be a transcendent talent in pro baseball, maybe even football, if he chose to pursue it. Coming out of Shrewsbury, New Jersey as a senior in 2006, Ryan briefly flirted with the idea of being a two sport athlete at the University of Virginia.

0:12:36 - (Toby Brooks): In an article written by Peter Gammons for the Atlantic in 2018, Gammons recounted, quote it may be apocryphal. The folks in Red bank plus Red Sox scout Ray Fagnett claimed he never swung and missed at a pitch in his senior year of high school. End quote Wait a minute. Never swung and missed at a pitch his senior season of high school? That's the kind of stuff that legends are made of. Not to mention clear signs of a prodigy, a man playing among boys.

0:13:06 - (Toby Brooks): The other stats and bits of truth that sound more like folklore but are.

0:13:10 - (Toby Brooks): Actually true about his high school career.

0:13:12 - (Toby Brooks): Are almost as impressive in baseball. Four year starter, all conference, all division. Struck out 10 batters in six innings in his first varsity pitching start as a freshman he threw his first no hitter as a sophomore he hit.507 with 32 stolen bases and a 160 ERA as a junior. For his entire high school career he hit.466 and struck out 190. And on the football field he was almost as effective and even more of a dog playing quarterback, strong safety, punter. He led his team to a division championship by his senior year and he was named the Jersey Shore Sports hall of Fame High School Male Athlete of the Year.

0:13:54 - (Toby Brooks): Unfortunately, thinking about going to college made many teams pass on him in the earlier rounds of the 2006 MLB Draft after all, why would a team burn a high draft pick on an athlete who likely isn't going to go pro just yet? And while Ryan was rated the number 76 prospect and number two in New Jersey, Billy Rao was number one and went number nine overall in the first round. Ryan ended up going in the ninth round when the Red Sox picked him up and signed him to a $600,000 deal, which was more like second round money.

0:14:26 - (Toby Brooks): So if you really think about it, you consider what the future looked like to an 18 year old kid out of New Jersey with a deal worth more than a half a million dollars and a resume that read of one success after another, it'd be easy to see that same bright future superstardom and even more riches ahead. Unfortunately, that reckless abandon and that warrior mentality likely forged on the football field also made Ryan play differently than a lot of his peers.

0:14:53 - (Toby Brooks): And sacrificing his body and playing through pain in order to make spectacular plays became commonplace. It wouldn't be long before its toll started to extract a heavy price.

0:15:04 - (Ryan Kalish): And truth be told, I always kind of had this feeling, especially after, let's say six or seven surgeries, it was almost hard to not think this is going to happen again. You're going to be healthy for a little bit of time and then you're going to fall apart. And maybe my mind was powerful enough to make that happen or it was just fate. I can't. I'll never know the truth. But yeah, it was a lot of battling through surgery beds and rehabs and pain on the fields never really felt great, right.

0:15:38 - (Toby Brooks): And sadly, I think a lot of people don't really understand the logistics of this. I teach a sports site class and we talked about the story of Drew Robinson and how Drew had kind of bounced at the fringes of the MLB aaa kind of back and forth. Even if you're in one organization, you may be with multiple different teams throughout the season. So you don't have that. It's not like your high school team where your buddies are with you or the athletic trainer or the coach that you trust is there with you.

0:16:05 - (Toby Brooks): The physicians that are operating on you are different from one month to the next because you're in a different town mentally. What was that season like for you to navigate without having that consistency in an organization?

0:16:18 - (Ryan Kalish): Yeah, it was quite isolating. I mean we, most of my rehabs would happen at the spring training facilities of the place like so Red Sox, Fort Myers, Chicago, Cubs, Arizona. And it was always, it was always very lonely Men, you know, and you, you also felt. I felt judged as the hurt guy. And it was, it was very challenging for my like, soul and my psyche to, to feel those sort of emotions. And it was sort of unsaid, like, oh, he's hurt again. It felt like, like people just, they get angry, they get upset with you and, and it's a, it's not a very good feeling at all.

0:16:56 - (Ryan Kalish): Right.

0:16:57 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah. And I think the other side of that is, you know, you haven't established yourself as a starter for a particular. You're not locked in as that position guy. Someone else is gunning for your job, whether wherever you're at in the organization. And so having something to prove and knowing that you're capable, but at the same time physically you're not able to. There's a difference between ability and capability.

0:17:24 - (Toby Brooks): And knowing that you're capable but not being able to show that on the field is isolating and that's a lonely place to be. So you mentioned your two time world champion. Talk me through what that was like. I mean, all your friends back home just know you're a big leaguer. You're living the dream now. You're a two time. First you win a World Series and then you get another one. But maybe it's not quite what it was cracked up to be.

0:17:47 - (Ryan Kalish): Well, for me it was completely different. You know, I, I wasn't playing. I played 12 games to earn two World Series. The first year, the first time with the Red Sox in 2013, literally, I did not play one game. I was on the injured reserve list. The second one with the Cubs, you know, it was. But you know, man, switching how like it could, it could be sad, right? When I see it now in retrospect, I mean, I have two. I have a combination of rings that only four players have in the entire ever, ever. Red Sox and Cubs.

0:18:23 - (Ryan Kalish): This combination is. There's four of us. To have those and to have fought long enough to have earned, especially the second one. When I think back to it, how I feel most people would have quit after seven or eight surgeries and I pushed it all away.

0:18:43 - (Toby Brooks): I can tell right here that Ryan has had some time to process all this. What it means to have had such a bright future dimmed by persistent nagging, debilitating injuries. To have not one, but two World Series ranks. And I'll go out on a limb here and be fairly certain that at least part of him resented at some point those ranks. Some might say competitors compete, championships are won by the athletes playing all year.

0:19:10 - (Toby Brooks): And contributed not by guys who are.

0:19:12 - (Toby Brooks): On the DL all season or called up for a few games, but honestly, that's a short sighted, limited and damaging view. After all, Ryan was working hard every day. And championships in baseball aren't won by one guy in a critical situation. They're won by organizations, decisions and work and grind and effort from everyone from the big league team right down to the developmental facility in the Dominican or the rookie ball team in the middle of nowhere.

0:19:39 - (Toby Brooks): And he was part of it. Young Ryan might have brushed it off, but with time and with work, I think he now appreciates where this journey's taken him and not just what it's cost him, but what it's given him. He's on a very short list of four human beings on the planet to have both a 2013 Red Sox and 2016 Cubs World Series ring, along with John Lester, John Lackey and David Ross. And especially that Cubs ring.

0:20:07 - (Toby Brooks): Not only did Ryan play 12 games with the Chicago team that season, he did so after many had already written him off from a future in baseball. After serious shoulder surgery, after a surgical fusion to remove a disc in his neck that also involved a steel plate and a graft harvested out of his hip, it was his fourth major surgery in less than two years. By 2014, he'd been traded to the Cubs and then free agency after a deal with the Toronto Blue Jays fell through.

0:20:35 - (Toby Brooks): So to even make it back to baseball with the Cubs Again in 2016, it was worth celebrating. But in the moment, I'd say it's safe to say Ryan wasn't celebrating. He was grinding. He was working. He was toiling to become the mythical version of himself he always expected to be as that indestructible 18 year old in New Jersey. And as remarkable as that version of the story could have been, it wouldn't have produced the grounded, focused and humble man you'd speak to today.

0:21:06 - (Ryan Kalish): I mean, I squeezed as much as I was going to get out of my injury riddled career. So yeah, in retrospect I was again, I was never actually there to celebrate. Was never, yeah, wasn't part of playoffs. I was isolated at those moments. Actually rehabbing. It was difficult. But yeah, like I said, in retrospect, man, my fight to get those was so great. A big fight and I'm very proud of that.

0:21:35 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah, and you should be. I mean, remarkable. The amount of wherewithal it takes to, to rally again and just the mental energy that it takes to invest in a month's long or years long rehab. I don't think we celebrate that enough. So that's awesome. So thanks, man. It's easy to remember your first. And I think about this in parenting, I think about this in my career. You know, when you stepped onto a big league field for the first time, but you don't know when you've stepped on it for the last time.

0:22:06 - (Toby Brooks): So talk me through that transition in your career and what it was like to, to make your way out of the Cubs organization. And it looks like you spent some time in independent ball. And so what was that like?

0:22:18 - (Ryan Kalish): So I retired at that independent ball with the Connecticut team, the Beast. It was. I knew it was coming, the end. You know, my, my right knee was the biggest issue that I faced injury wise. And I just didn't feel it, did not feel well. It was cold there. I had put so much energy into it and I, I realized I was going to retire. During the game, the first game of this preseason, I was like, this is it. You know, I'm gonna go in, I'm gonna ask to, to take one more at bat against the pitcher and I'm gonna leave. And I did that. And it was a big emotion. Like, I cried a lot that day.

0:23:04 - (Ryan Kalish): Yeah, it really was. It was like a long time coming, man. I just, I just knew it was time.

0:23:14 - (D): He had.376. That's a career, man, in any league. You got that right.

0:23:21 - (Toby Brooks): Did you hear what I said?

0:23:23 - (D): I mean, I'm going to the Show. You know what the difference between hitting.250 and.300 is? It's 25 hits. 25 hits and 500 a batch is 50 points. Okay? There's six months in a season. That's about 25 weeks. That means if you get just one extra flare a week, just one. A gork. You get a ground ball, you get a. You get a ground ball with eyes, you get a dying quail. Just one more dying quail a week and you're in Yankee Stadium.

0:23:58 - (Toby Brooks): I remember hearing that clip way back when I watched Bullderm for the first time years ago. And even then, it struck me just how fickle the game of baseball can be. Fictional career minor league catcher Crash Davis, played by Kevin Costner, breaks it down in an analytics lesson that always made you ache for those on the fringes of big league staying power who never quite stuck. One more hit, reach safely on a hit just once more per week over the season, and you'll go from being designated for assignment hitting.250

0:24:32 - (Toby Brooks): in the minor somewhere to a big leaguer hitting.300 and as painful and thought provoking as this scene always has been for me to consider, Ryan's story makes it all the more real. According to baseballreference.com after four seasons of an injury riddled career in the bigs, two with Boston, two with Chicago, Ryan saw action in 153 games and 422 plate appearances. He hit.245 for his career, with his best season coming the furthest down that injury journey, hitting exactly.250 with the Cubs.

0:25:05 - (Toby Brooks): Curious, I plugged Ryan's stats into ChatGPT and prompted this analysis. Quote Considering Kalish's games played, appearances and career batting average, how would his performance have to improve in order for him to be a.300 hitter? End Quote and while Bull Durham came out in 1988, a full 34 plus years before ChatGPT was even a thing, turns out Crash Davis was exactly right after my prompt. The Response to become a.300 hitter, Ryan Kalish would need an additional 21 hits over the same number of career at bats.387.

0:25:42 - (Toby Brooks): This would increase his hit total to.116, raising his batting average to exactly.300. In practical terms, he would need to convert about one additional hit every seven games into a base hit over his career to reach this milestone. End quote Someone Crash said it Quote that means if you get just one extra flare a week, just one gorp, you get a ground ball. A ground ball with eyes, you get a dying quail. Just one more dying quail a week and you're in Yankee Stadium.

0:26:13 - (Toby Brooks): He was all but manifesting Ryan's future with the exception of Yankee Stadium being replaced with Fenway park or Wrigley Field. And maybe it was a ground ball. A younger, healthier knee would have allowed Ryan to beat out. Or a hard hit line drive that would have been hit harder still with a healthy shoulder or close play for an extra base hit, he would have approached with more aggression if not for a chunk of bone cut out of his hip screwed into his neck.

0:26:38 - (Toby Brooks): We will never, can never know what the game of baseball would have been like with a healthy Ryan Kalish. But what we do know is that despite it all, he wasn't done yet.

0:26:49 - (Ryan Kalish): Right? It didn't feel good, that's for sure.

0:26:52 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah, and I've had that conversation especially seems like in baseball where you've toiled, you've worked through the ranks, in your case made it to the highest level and then kind of the downward slope of that where you've, you've done great things, but it's the champion's mindset that makes you wonder, well, what if this or, you know, what if this had gone another way or if I hadn't been injured.

0:27:15 - (Toby Brooks): And so when you emptied that locker out for the last time and headed home in that. What do they call it? The narp, the non athletic regular person. What was on your mind both immediately and in the weeks and months to follow as you started to contemplate a life after baseball?

0:27:35 - (Ryan Kalish): So, you know, this, this is definitely dark times, but yeah, dark times. So it was an, it was a feeling throughout my body and just everywhere, like shock and awe and like, what am I going to do now and what next? Like, I don't know anything else. I was, you know, like I said, I was a young child and I learned that I love baseball and now I'm 30. It was scary. It was, yeah. I mean, there's a lot of stories in between that year, let's say five years ago and now, depression.

0:28:17 - (Ryan Kalish): Plenty of suicidal ideation occurred, a lot of mental therapy, going to clinics and even facilities for some periods of time to try and understand why I was feeling this way. Ultimately I felt, and I knew that deep down it was a lack of purpose and it was a lack of what am I going to do? And whatever I want to do, I want it to kind of feel. Feel big or just be something important. If it was like in the time trying to figure out what that was, which technically I still am.

0:28:59 - (Ryan Kalish): Yeah, it was about like crying every day for months on end, watching my hands shake, feeling my nervous system freak out and no one.

0:29:10 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah.

0:29:11 - (Ryan Kalish): And the thing is like, you go from a schedule every day in baseball, be here, someone's checking on you, and then all of a sudden there's no one there. Nobody gives, nobody cares. And you're like, whoa, what am I going to do? Yeah, so yeah, that was, it was crazy. And I even talking about it now, I feel goosebumps because I remember how low some of those days were and I'm kind of. Honestly, I'm still surprised. I feel recovered as I do today.

0:29:44 - (Toby Brooks): Well, I thank you for your vulnerability, for sharing that. I think two things. First of all, particularly for men, but not, not exclusively for men, there. There's this stigma to sharing emotions. And you know, you have tough. You have to be indestructible in order to be a competitive athlete. And I've heard it said that maybe athletics is only second to the military, but either way we cultivate this idea of invulnerability. I'm. I'm tough, I can handle Anything.

0:30:12 - (Toby Brooks): And we also wrap our identity around the job. And for an athlete, that job didn't start after college for you, that, that really your training started at nine years old. So you've spent the majority of the years you can recall pursuing this baseball dream and all of a sudden it's gone and you're purposeless. And what fills that void? And for so many athletes at the time they're most vulnerable, they have the least support.

0:30:39 - (Toby Brooks): When you're a member of the Boston Red Sox or the Chicago Cubs, there's a medical staff of world class people that you can call at 3 in the morning and they will drop everything to go help you. And as soon as you're no longer with that organization, that's all gone. And now what do you have? Not to mention the financial ramifications. It's not like you maybe could afford that. So I think sports medicine has done athletes a disservice for a very long time of, of not taking care of those who have been a part of our organizations. I look at this particularly in colleges because there's no, there's no players union for, for college athletes once you're out of, you know, if you go to UVA and you either graduate or transfer out, they're not obligated to help you in any way.

0:31:25 - (Toby Brooks): Whereas I can see in professional sports, you know, you've got union and you've got some other things to hopefully support you, but it's just not, it's not what it ought to be. So.

0:31:36 - (Ryan Kalish): Yeah, I think so too.

0:31:38 - (Toby Brooks): So we haven't talked about how you became a pro athlete. You were an elite athlete early. Did you train differently? I think this speaks into the injury side of things. How did you prepare and what was your speed and strength and agility training program like up until the point where injuries started to take their toll?

0:31:59 - (Ryan Kalish): I would say I was in Ferrari that had no mechanic. That's what it was. I mean I pushed myself, I trained hard. I wanted to outwork everyone and I did. But without very, especially until after that first round of injuries began around 23 was barely mobility work. There was no myofascial release, stretching. No, I was just, I was a very wound tight, high performance person. And yeah, it just without that sort of education or anything happening at that stage, plus also this feeling I played football and obviously so as a baseball player you don't have as much contact but you almost want it because you're mentally, you're like that gritty iron, you know, gridiron guy playing baseball now and I, you know, was. Was.

0:33:01 - (Ryan Kalish): I don't know if I. I never said it out loud, but I. I felt I was invincible. I felt that. And that's just not. It wasn't true, and none of it was true. And it was like at one point, everything just unraveled. Yeah. So, yeah, that was. Yeah.

0:33:22 - (Toby Brooks): So in terms of your training and preparation, fairly traditional. Sounds like you're a twitchy guy. Like a lot of track athletes, you try to put them on a table and stretch their hamstrings and they don't move. But you look at them in motion and they're twitchy, they're. They're moving, they're explosive. So probably fairly traditional in your preparation. Before we go there, you had a career detour. You were co owner of Birdman Bats, it looks like, and so you started to cut your teeth in the entrepreneurial space post baseball. So talk me through that season and maybe how it set you up for your current ventures.

0:33:58 - (Ryan Kalish): Yes, I've had a bit of an entrepreneurial journey now. So Birdman Bass was kind of always there post baseball. This is all part like, first I became a Pilates teacher, I took a full education, and I simultaneously worked for the Dodgers at the time. And then post that job, I decided I wasn't really feeling well with myself. It kind of was. It was up and down, you know, this post baseball journey. And I moved to Indonesia and there I. I've started a business, you know, do some, some real estate stuff there while also working with Birdman Bats.

0:34:42 - (Ryan Kalish): But, yeah, ultimately kind of getting my feet wet in running business, entrepreneurial stuff, which is still learning all the time. We're learning all the time. And I'm still running part of that business over in Indonesia whilst I also work on these other ventures. So it really has taught me a lot, you know, running business, calculating numbers, planning for the future, seeing what's going on. And now I'm a father and a husband as well. So these sort of things will obviously give you a ton of purpose. And also, really, every day I'm waking up like, how can I be more efficient with my time?

0:35:21 - (Ryan Kalish): How can I do all of these things that I want to be doing? And yeah, it's a work in progress, but for sure, all these entrepreneurial endeavors are getting me ready for what I feel is about to begin.

0:35:37 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah, that's certainly an exciting aspect in finding that new purpose once you feel like it's either been taken or it's come to a close. I mean, generally athletics and artistic pursuits for that matter. I've had actors and musicians who have said, you know, once that season came to an end, it was a really lonely, dark space until I found what was next. And that's the theme of this show, is we come apart, we're undone.

0:36:04 - (Toby Brooks): Before we realize that we're not finished, we're undone. And so that's where kind of the cage and some of your new training methodologies come in, is aligning your athletic experience as an injured athlete with some of your entrepreneurial pursuits. So talk me through the Cube and where you came up with the opposition method and decompression concept.

0:36:28 - (Ryan Kalish): So, Yeah, I mean, 14 surgeries going into becoming a Pilates teacher. And if you don't know about Pilates, it was only recently created, let's say a hundred years ago. So it's relatively new compared to weightlifting. And I love weightlifting. I love everything about traditional workouts. But I also, with all these injuries, I have pain in my knee, I have pain in my back, I have pain in joints all the time, all day.

0:36:57 - (Ryan Kalish): And I've just been thinking about what, what could, what could help? And this idea came to me about four years ago. Ultimately, I did make a prototype. But talking about undone, my mind is powerful, all of ours are. I essentially talked myself out of chasing this. The first around, I wasn't getting much feedback. It was new. I felt scared. You know, I still feel scared even now to go for it. But essentially, my cube, yes, it's a big cage, but it is more of a concept, right? The. The device can turn out to be anything. I could care less. I more want to bring the concept to life. So, yeah, firstly, as simple as I can put it, I think that human beings could benefit greatly from having their feet firmly secured to the ground and having a force pull them to the sky and then asking them to perform a squat.

0:38:02 - (Ryan Kalish): This is a body feeling of mine at the moment. Obviously it's not proven, but from most of the things that I see, and I am talking to certain physical therapists, even ones that I ultimately kind of thought maybe would be like, no, that's crazy. She even said this could have a lot of scientific merit. And I understand how it works with university and this sort of thing. Like, nobody's going to get too hyped on anything until it gets proven.

0:38:35 - (Ryan Kalish): So I'm good with that journey. And it's also helps me to kind of stay realistic and know that to prove, I mean, I'm asking a question, can the reverse of a squat be useful? And I honestly, I feel a little shy and somewhat like this weird shame around asking a question. And then like yesterday I woke up, like, why feel ashamed to ask any question? Why not? Like if you could. Yeah, I want to help people and that's the ultimate goal. So if I'm acting in that light, if I ask the question, is the reverse of a squat a good thing for people? I shouldn't feel ashamed about asking that question.

0:39:21 - (Toby Brooks): For sure.

0:39:22 - (Ryan Kalish): Yeah.

0:39:23 - (Toby Brooks): I mentioned in the conversation we had before the show knees over toes guy, a lot of. Yeah, the, the training that is count. I mean, logically it makes sense. If training in a certain way led to a result of 14 surgeries for you, then it's worth at least investigating how training in the opposite way might benefit or might offer improvements. We know there's mountains of evidence that says gravity is hard on the back and, and inversion tables being an example of one way to decompress the spine. But now you've got blood flow issues. So I love the concept in that you're able to decompress without some of the complications that historically have come with it.

0:40:05 - (Ryan Kalish): Yeah. And you go to the knees over toes guy, he talks a lot about walking backwards and I do walk backwards and I pull the sled backwards and I have a really bad knee. I mean the stuff that's in there, I mean, is metal plates, I have screws, I have, you know, implanted the moral cartilage in there and I feel it every day. But when I do traditional heavy squats or forward pushing sleds, really, you know, pretty heavy. I feel it in my knee, but when I do the reverse, I don't feel it.

0:40:40 - (Ryan Kalish): So he's definitely a part of my inspiration, massively. And yeah, I think that there's. The theory is creating space in the joints. Right. Like training. First of all, no one has ever done this before. They've never had to pull themselves to the earth whilst being pulled up to the sky. So it's like a whole new combination of muscles and things. You're waking up inside your body, but if you're being pulled up, you're automatically gaining some decompression, especially if it's done comfortably and. Right. Right. I'm not just saying like create this at your house and just go for it sort of thing like this probably should be tested pretty well.

0:41:25 - (Ryan Kalish): But if you're being pulled up and your feet are anchored and you just stood there, you'd be automatically getting some decompression. Now go ask yourself to lower to the ground. You're strengthening a completely new set of muscles and decompression in the ankle, knee, hip and back joints are not going to go away. In fact, you're gonna strengthen these muscles to hopefully hold and keep that decompression lasting.

0:41:55 - (Ryan Kalish): That's the theory. Right? I mean, I, I think like you said, it does make sense. The way you talk to people, it's like not sounding that crazy. Yeah, but no, at least when, from what I've seen, no one's really talked about this yet. Yeah, but I'm gonna be, be that. God. Yeah.

0:42:14 - (Toby Brooks): No, it's a fascinating concept. I always used to tell my students, you know, we gestate inflection. We spend our lives in chairs. Inflection. Yeah, we, we tend to train inflection and so things that counter that, neutralize that natural tendency. And so an extension heavy training mode like this, I could certainly see logically it makes sense to me that, that it would help balance things out. And, and you mentioned you were a Ferrari without a mechanic.

0:42:42 - (Toby Brooks): Frequently we'll talk about athletes who are, you know, traditionally trained. They're really strong anteriorly, but their posterior chain is garbage because they've bench pressed and they've done flies and, and they've, they've squatted, they've done a lot of anterior chain heavy exercise and that leads to imbalance. Well, if, if you put two new tires on the left hand side of your car and, and old ratty ones on the right, it's not going to handle right. It needs, it needs to be balanced. And so I, I think there's certainly something to this.

0:43:14 - (Toby Brooks): So you've been through so much and I appreciate your transparency and kind of talking about some of those dark days post baseball. One of the focuses of this show is, you know, what, what could we share with perhaps the younger generation? What, what is some advice you might have given yourself if you could talk to young Ryan, 9 years old, getting that Nerf bat for the first time. What's maybe the most valuable piece of information you could share with him for the journey he's about to set out on?

0:43:45 - (Ryan Kalish): Stay humble, stay confident, and don't believe your negative self talk. Because the last one, especially the negative self talk, whether it be I'm probably going to get hurt again, or you can't become a Pilates teacher, or if you start talking about a squat where you're getting pulled up to the sky, you, you are insane and people are going to judge you. This, this stuff is still something that I'm working on now.

0:44:17 - (Ryan Kalish): But I will say, especially now when I'm suggesting exploring this new concept I am not going to listen to myself at all with this. Like anytime that I wake up and feel like, oh, don't you know, no one's listening yet, screw it, I'm gonna just stop and continue whatever my business in Indonesia and just go quiet again. I, I just don't believe that that's going to make me feel fulfilled. I think pushing through the negative self talk and trying to talk myself out of things and still pushing through and going for it is ultimately the, the, the lesson I would like myself to still learn. But for sure, for young people, man, it like in this day and age of social media and seeing everyone, you know, put out these images of doing all these cool things, if you believe every negative thing your mind tells you, you're going to have a lot of trouble.

0:45:16 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah, I've heard it sound that if, if someone spoke to us the way we speak to ourselves, we'd spend a lot of time probably punching them in the mouth. We wouldn't allow someone to disrespect us like that. But yet if we let that inner dialogue do that, it's. It's probably more damaging.

0:45:33 - (Ryan Kalish): Yeah, exactly. It's what it is. So that's my lessons for myself too.

0:45:40 - (Toby Brooks): All right, well, we're winding it down here. This one's kind of an oddball one. I love music and the emotions that it can frequently represent. If we were to watch a montage of your life, sure. Song would be playing in the background. And why.

0:45:54 - (Ryan Kalish): This song by Ben Bomber and the song title is called Beyond Beliefs. It's this fluffy, really good vibe techno song and it just really is actually what I have attached to a few of my posts recently. And yeah, the, the, the title is kind of on the theme of what we're saying here. Like go beyond belief in yourself. Whatever you're saying to yourself, especially if it's bad, don't believe that. Go beyond it. Like for me it's, you know, now I want to explore and validate if my idea is correct.

0:46:55 - (Ryan Kalish): Most people would say a traditional weighted squat is the way to go. I'm saying I'm going beyond my belief because I think that this other thing could really, really help as well. So this is the theme, man, you know, Beyond Beliefs by Ben Bommer. It's a great track if you ever have time to check it out.

0:47:15 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah, no, I, I actually have a running Becoming Undone mixtape on, on Spotify where all my guests song picks get dropped in. So we'll make it into the mix. Well, we've kind of talked about This a little bit, but what for Ryan Kalish remains undone.

0:47:34 - (Ryan Kalish): Oh, man. Remains undone. Yeah, this. This chase right now of the cube and let's say my decompression squat theory and all this is undone because I don't know where it's going to lead yet. But in general, just putting myself out there like this, I mean, yes, of course. Truly, my ultimate dream in life is to create a company that brings a lot of innovative products, because this is just one thing I have on my mind. I have 10 to 15 other things, but I realized I need to, like, focus in on one before the rest can blossom.

0:48:12 - (Ryan Kalish): So that. That's sort of. That's undone. You know, I want to see that through. But again, if, let's say this whole concept didn't play out, yeah, I have a great story and I have skills. I can already put together things to help people feel better in their body, like certain myofascial techniques, all these things that I Learned through those 14 surgeries and rehab. So believing that my voice can have an impact on the Internet actually also feels undone. Like I want to start sharing my life.

0:48:50 - (Ryan Kalish): It's been four years, actually. I didn't post at all, basically. So, yeah, it's undone. Tend to tell my story and to put myself out there and see where that can take me.

0:49:04 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah, well, it's a powerful story, certainly an inspiration, and I. I appreciate you sharing with me. How can listeners connect with the work that you're doing? I know you're on Instagram. Drop those and I'll. I'll put them in the. The show notes.

0:49:18 - (Ryan Kalish): You can check me out on Instagram or Twitter and, I don't know, maybe you have any suggestions on other platforms? I'm happy to start outreaching everywhere.

0:49:26 - (Toby Brooks): Yeah, for sure.

0:49:28 - (Ryan Kalish): I am Ryan Kalish, and I am undone.

0:49:31 - (Toby Brooks): Ryan Kalish's journey is a testament to resilience, reinvention, and the courage to embrace the unknown. From the absolute pinnacle of pro sports to the challenges of navigating life after baseball, Ryan's shown us all that setbacks.

0:49:46 - (Toby Brooks): Might not be what we would have.

0:49:47 - (Toby Brooks): Chosen, but they can be what we needed to discovering new purpose. His willingness to confront his struggles, share his story, and explore innovative and new ways to help others speaks volumes about his character and his determination. If there's one thing we can take away, it's that true success lies not in avoiding adversity, but in how we choose to face it and to rise and redefine ourselves after the fact.

0:50:12 - (Toby Brooks): I'm thankful to Ryan for dropping in and I hope you enjoyed our conversation. For more info on today's episode, be sure to check it out on the web. Simply go to undonepodcast.com ep110 to see the notes, links and images related to today's guest, Ryan Kalish. I know there are great stories out there to be told and I'm always on the lookout. So if you or someone you know has a story we can all be inspired by, tell me about it.

0:50:38 - (Toby Brooks): Surf on over to undonepodcast.com, click that contact tab in the top menu and drop me a note. Coming up on the show, I have longtime friendly former D1 gymnast and coach turned inspiring personal development consultant Mary Rhys Farias coming up next week. I'm also wrapping up the final week of the Big Podcast 30 Day Solo Podcast Challenge with David Hooper over on my other show, the Professor's Playbook, so be sure to check it out.

0:51:02 - (Toby Brooks): This and more coming up on Becoming Undone. Becoming Undone is a nitrohype creative production written and produced by me, Toby Brooks. Do me a favor. Tell a friend about the show. Follow along on Facebook, Instagram or LinkedIn at Becoming Unknown Pod and follow me obijbrooks on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

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0:51:22 - (Toby Brooks): EE tobyjbrokes Listen, subscribe and please leave me a review at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time. Keep getting better.